trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

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trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

November 21, 2008, 04:00:38 pm

I'm finding it very difficult to build even the simplest train route in 1930. The only way I've managed to get it to work is the following steps:

Build a road between the supplier and consumer.
Build a loading bay at both places.
Buy a truck and schedule the trip between the bays and start the trip.
Build the track and place the stations adjacent to the loading bays.
Schedule train.

After the train completes its first trip you can send the truck back to the depot and remove the loading bays and the road. Please note I'm very new to the game so it is possible I'm just missing some important step when trying to setup my railroad without going through the steps above. However I've read everything I can find on setting up a railroad and tried it many times. Also note this is only true with the -timeline option.

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #1 – November 21, 2008, 04:07:02 pm

What exactly happens (or doesn't work) when you just build a train route (no roads and trucks)?

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #2 – November 21, 2008, 04:39:08 pm

I guess you used the OpenTrainStop for the train station, which doesn't accept freight. Please make sure that your train stations have the freight flag.

http://www.simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/simscr03.png

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #3 – November 21, 2008, 04:53:30 pm

Yoshi, I don't understand what you are saying. There are only two types of stations as far as I know, the one for coal and then the one for everything else. That is except for p****engers and mail which I haven't tried those.

Dirk, sometimes it will be the error where the train won't leave the depot. More often it is that after the train gets to the first stop it won't load. If this is the case it usually will travel between the stops if you set it to max load zero. There may be some more problems which I can remember right now.

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #4 – November 21, 2008, 05:02:04 pm

OK - adding to my task list - rename coal station to something else which does not confuse newbies.

~~Too tired to repeat the usual three-kinds-of-cargo mantra. Please, someone, repeat it...~~

Found it - see below.

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #5 – November 21, 2008, 05:05:44 pm

A train not leaving a depot should only happen, when it cannot find a route. Maybe tracks not properly connected or signals wrong, or some other simple error...

The other thing is the not loading issue - that is very likely caused by what yoshi said: you're using a station that doesn't enable goods (like the one on the right on yoshi's screenshot). You need to either add an extension building (for goods) of some sort or have at least one tile of the station to be a goods station - in 1930's pak128 that'd be the coal station.

Sorry, but this was surely explained around here in the past, so I'm not going to type it up again - maybe somebody knows the thread and can just link it here?

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #6 – November 21, 2008, 05:10:08 pm

Quote

Actually the 'coal station' is simply a platform with goods loading capability & a certain storage capacity (its the highest of all platforms in pak128). In addition there are other platforms with p**** or goods capabilities and varying storage capacities. So for transporting coal you need simply a platform with goods capability & storage capacity is your choice. So don't be confused with the name 'coal station'. Also you can have multiple kinds of platform tiles in a station so that you can have the same station with goods+p**** capability & an adjacent mail building also adds mail capability.

Quote

Platforms are eyecandy...

Any station tile may enable none, one, or more of the following:
- P****engers
- Mail
- Goods

As long as there is one tile of a station (be it train, truck/bus, ship, special building, wthaever) that enables one of the above, the entire station can handle it...

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #7 – November 21, 2008, 05:28:10 pm

OK, let's see if I got this. The basic element is the platform and then you add stuff to it like a coal station? Ah fellas, no worries. Looks like I just need to play around with this but you have given me some ideas of where to play.

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #8 – November 21, 2008, 06:48:48 pm

Hmm... sorry if I was rude before (I didn't sleep much, if it's a plausible excuse).

It works like this:

Platforms (stations, stops, docks) are where vehicles stop. They have some capacity.

Station buildings look nice and have some capacity, too.

Beside this, both can enable one of the three types of cargo (psg, mail, other) for the whole station complex.

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #9 – November 21, 2008, 07:23:43 pm

No worries VS, you have helped me a lot and I appreciate it.

I have my train working. For other newbies like me who are not the brightest star in the sky, here is a KISS on how to setup the first train.

Build track from supplier to consumer
Place a platform at both places
Choose a station type that matches the cargo of the supplier and place this behind the platform. The station type must be the same at both ends of the track!
Build the train and click schedule.
With the yellow arrow, click on the platform, not the station.
Click start and you should be in business.

Fellas, does this sound right?

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #10 – November 21, 2008, 07:47:03 pm

Well, "cargo" is anything - coal, oil, wood, cars... the root of all evil is that "coal station" misleads people in this aspect, pretending to enable only coal transport.

All stations and buildings have little icons telling what they enable:

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #11 – November 24, 2008, 09:08:59 pm

VS I just now realized you had edited your post with additional info. Yep the name "coal" station gave me a lot of heart burn.

I don't know what you mean about the buildings having an icon telling what they enable. All I see on the icon is a tooltip which has the name of the building and its cost. Where, oh where is this icon to which you refer?

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #12 – November 24, 2008, 09:10:59 pm

Icon on icon

See the arrows at top of attached graphic.

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #13 – November 24, 2008, 09:17:57 pm

Or to put that into words: stations (and extension buildings) have small symbols on their icon (and also in their detail window). A small group of people for p****engers, a yellow envelope for mail and a brown box for goods.

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #14 – November 24, 2008, 09:23:35 pm

Oh OK, I see what you mean. But you know I'm still pretty clueless on what most of them are used for. Right now I'm only using the platform and coal station. I figure I'll be pouring over the manual later on to find out uses for the rest of them. When, and that is being optimistic, I'm more advanced.

Well I see the post has been edited since I began this. I feel an edit coming on.

EDIT: As expected here is edit. I thought I knew what you meant. I did not entirely. You have to build the building to see the icon of what the building enables, right?

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #15 – November 24, 2008, 09:37:13 pm

Oh it isn't that complicated. The different station types are only different in a number of ways: 1.) their capacity and closely connected to that 2.) the price (purchasing and maintenance), 3.) the type of freight they enable the station to handle (p****engers, mail, goods - or any combination of these... or none.) 4.) the era in which they are available (when you play with timeline activated) and last but not least: 5.) the looks.

And it's pretty much the same for extension buildings. You can use them to enable freight types the station itself cannot handle, to increase capacity and/or to enlarge the area covered (from what tiles it accepts freight and to where it can deliver them - toggle that view by pressin "v") by your station.

That's about all there is to it.

Oh and in case nobody said that before: it is enough to have one tile of station or just one extension building enabling a certain freight type (again just the three: p****engers, mail or goods) to have the whole station complex accepting these.

EDIT:

Quote from: Roads – on November 24, 2008, 09:23:35 pm

You have to build the building to see the icon of what the building enables, right?

No, not necessarily. In pak128 (and at least in the latest versions of that) all the icons in the building menu have these symbols as well (as you can see in the picture VS attached to his post) - but they can be a little hard to see.

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #16 – November 24, 2008, 10:03:37 pm

Dirk I'm going to try to absorb all you said but first I need to beat this dead horse. Granted my eyes are not what they used to be so I can't see the little icons in the pic but I can see the arrows pointing to where are should be. In my version of the pak, they just are not there or they are so small I can't see them. Are you absolutely sure they are there?

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #17 – November 24, 2008, 10:19:51 pm

Well... I thought I had added them everywhere. ~~Now they seem to be gone again~~. Interesting - will have to investigate this.

EDIT: Nope, I looked at the wrong file - they are all there as I said earlier. So yes, by now I am absolutely sure that they are there (but of course only when that type of stop enables any of the three freight types - so it is not present on the simple platform, or the parking area type car stops, for example.)

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #18 – November 25, 2008, 11:54:29 pm

Dirk, I was pretty sure my game would not show any train icons on the icons but I waited until I actually had a train running to check. *beats dead horse* - no icons.

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #19 – November 26, 2008, 12:06:57 pm

Sounds like you're looking in the wrong place, actually...

EDIT:

I was talking about these:

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #20 – November 26, 2008, 08:30:09 pm

Please look at the number of icons you have and and the number I have on my screen. I think my nightly download is about 3 weeks old...

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #21 – November 26, 2008, 08:48:07 pm

no, that's not the reason.
as you play with timeline you cannot yet build stations and railways as modern as dirk's
so just be patient ^^

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #22 – November 26, 2008, 09:01:12 pm

But being able to build only some does not defeat the point

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #23 – November 26, 2008, 11:01:58 pm

Quote from: VS – on November 26, 2008, 09:01:12 pm

But being able to build only some does not defeat the point

Exactly.

@Roads: The symbols are visible on your icons as well - even when there are fewer.

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #24 – November 27, 2008, 03:58:05 am

*sigh* Well fellas I'm gonna leave this lost child in the wilderness. There are far too many other fun things in the game to to do rather than obsess over the complexities of train management. Not that I don't appreciate or plan on coming back to this after I've played with trains for awhile, I'm just dropping it for now in favor of sailing ships and buses.

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #25 – November 30, 2008, 07:41:58 pm

This is going to be a sad story, badly told and I don't come out very well in it. I'm sorry. Fellas, I never saw those icons. While reading kiff664's post on "missing factory", I realized also I do not have an icon for building an industry. Later I read what Prizzi said about v100 not working very well with pak128 so I downloaded v99. It would not run. However, at this time I realized I had not been running v100 all along but something with an executable of simwingdl.exe I can't remember when I got that or why I was running it. Anyway I downloaded v100 and geez, it won't run. Any suggestion on where to go from here?

BTW the simwingdl.exe still runs the game but it is very buggy and I'm talking not just missing icons.

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #26 – November 30, 2008, 08:05:42 pm

You need to download the archive with the executable together with a matching (=compatible) pak archive, and install (=extract) both of them in the same location. Don't extract different versions into the same directory, unless you know what consequences it will have.

An icon for building an industry will only appear when you switch to the "public" player.

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #27 – November 30, 2008, 10:42:57 pm

Thanks whoami, I'll delete everything and start fresh. No idea what a "public player" is...

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #28 – November 30, 2008, 11:16:22 pm

Quote

No idea what a "public player" is...

Main toolbar, file button (most left), "players". You see an overview of players. The second one is the public player. He plays a kind of governamental role. He can build infrastructure, build houses, extend cities and build industry chains. He can't build depots and so he can't use vehicles, trains etc. Infrastructure build by the public player can be used by all other players. This is a way to build a station that can be used by two or more players. And all things build by the public player does not cost the human player anything (since he does not pay taxes...).

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #29 – December 01, 2008, 01:43:03 am

Got it, thank you Combuijs!

Also just got v99 downloaded and it runs great. I can see why many people prefer v100 though. I don't think I can live without the scrolling while paused that v100 offers. And the graphics are, well, way better. So maybe I'll just put up with my trucks getting stuck at the steel mill and chemical plant loading bays and steel and plastic vanishing from those industries.

Even with those glitches this game is far better than anything else out there.

EDIT: That would be a refinery instead of chemical plant.

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #30 – December 01, 2008, 09:51:13 am

I've found a work around to the problem with trucks getting stuck at the refinery, thanks to Combuijs' post. The problem is apparently only with the "Magirus oil truck 1923" for picking up chemicals. I'm not sure when the "Sindor-Praga N - cistem diesel" becomes available but it solves the problem. Actually the notation says this truck becomes available in June of 1930 but I haven't checked to see that.

I had a Magirus truck stuck at a refinery. After going into public player mode, I advanced the game 4 years. When I saw the new type truck was available, I chose it and sent it to the refinery. The Sindor truck loaded immediately.

Now about those train icons - ugh, sorry - yes I am seeing those tiny little designs in the corner of icon. Still I don't see that they do anything, if I hover my cursor over the design I get the same msg as when I hover it over any other part of the icon. If I try to click on the little design, the regular icon activates.

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #31 – December 01, 2008, 11:11:23 am

Quote

The problem is apparently only with the "Magirus oil truck 1923" for picking up chemicals

Both the Magirus as the Sindor-Praga truck should load chemicals, so why the problem is solved is still puzzling me.

Quote

If I try to click on the little design, the regular icon activates.

Those tiny things in the corner of the icon don't behave differently. They are only an indication what kind of goods/p****enger/mail can be loaded and unloaded at a station if you place the building that is under the icon. So a post-office (obviously) enables mail (tiny envelop in the upper left corner), a bus stop enables p****engers (two tiny persons in the upper left corner) and a warehouse enables goods (tiny "whatever it is" in the upper left corner).

Re: trains -timeline v100.1-2126 pak128 v242

Reply #32 – December 01, 2008, 06:59:11 pm

What I'm saying about the Magirus truck is that apparently it is bugged for picking up chemicals at a refinery. When you play -timeline it is the only truck available at the beginning of the game.

Well Combuijs after so many posts about train icons you have shined a light on it for me. I know y'all think I must be an idiot but I simply can see well enough to tell what those little designs are - I can only see there is something there in the corner of the icon.