Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Simutrans reviewed in Freegamer (Read 36541 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Simutrans reviewed in Freegamer

Reply #35 –
It's true, the asynchronous updating of pak sets and executables could make an all-in-one download harder to create. Otherwise a complete game with 3 pak sets included with a working installer somewhere on a dominant spot on the homepage would make Simutrans lots easier to access. I remember reading the forum for hours before knowing how to install Simutrans to start with, luckily the screenshots kept me focused.
Maybe the whole download could include the latest pak sets every forthnight. Alternatively, SimuSetup could get a more dominant role on the homepage instead. But then we do need a version for mac and Linux, too, and now we're brainstorming anyways, a built-in updater would be great, too...
Played Simutrans in:
~ The Netherlands ~ United Kingdom ~ Taiwan ~ Belgium ~

Simutrans player

Re: Simutrans reviewed in Freegamer

Reply #36 –
Ideas for a built in updater:
it would go into the exe. You can download only the exe. if it doesn't detect any installed pak, it prompts the player which one(s) they want to play - and it downloads and installs it. If it detects one, it loads it, but in the main menu there is a "update youd pak/get more paks" button. If more paks are detected, a GUI will prompt which one to start.

Re: Simutrans reviewed in Freegamer

Reply #37 –
Fabio,

downloads it from where? Not all paksets are hosted in the same place...
Download Simutrans-Extended.

Want to help with development? See here for things to do for coding, and here for information on how to make graphics/objects.

Follow Simutrans-Extended on Facebook.

Re: Simutrans reviewed in Freegamer

Reply #38 –
well, this is the idea -- if such a software could be made, we would need to move all downloads in a single place. or there could be a list of URLs in a text file in a common server, redirecting to the the actual pak URL.

Something like

Code: [Select]
PAK64
http://server1.domain1/pak64_xx_xx.zip
PAK96
ftp://server2.domain2/pak96_xx_xx.zip
PAK128
http://server3.domain1/pak128_xx_xx.zip

Re: Simutrans reviewed in Freegamer

Reply #39 –
BTW, I've converted the Starter Guide pdf to html and, without images just plain text, it occupies around 250 KB.

Re: Simutrans reviewed in Freegamer

Reply #40 –
Quote from: vilvoh – on
The main problem of documentation, as VS pointed out some posts ago, is that It contains a lot of big screenshots, on average one or two per page. This is good because sometimes an image is better than a thousand words, but the main disadvantage is the space it occupies. Other games have a html version, as jamespetts said, of all documentation with just plain text. Let's wait for Ormac's opinion (Master of Documentation)

I would have liked a review of the Starter Guide from a newer user's perspective. I do ask for feedback but I think I generally get very little

I do realise the Starter Guide is so large because of the images but as this was started as a personal project and I'm the one that continues to maintain and extend  the Simutrans Reference Material [Starter Guide, Reference Manual]. I enjoy having two or three images on each element I write about to keep the written instructions concise while still getting the point across with images.

 I personally do not have the time or really the interest in converting and maintaining it as a single (or set of html pages) as well.

Regarding a complete bundle I think Prissi originally kept the game, pak sets and documentation seperate so people could choose exactly the configuration they wanted without having dead weight to download. Also the Starter Guide wasn't of the same quality as the Third Edition.

That's not to say it shouldn't also be provided now. But I would stay away from calling it "... for dummies" even if it's like the big yellow books. I've avoided the use of the internet newbie user phrasing and consider users either newer or experienced and people can make their own judgement as to which document to download.

I've also been putting the documents on the server for people to be able to translate although I haven't been publicising that yet if users would rather a native language Starter Guide or Reference Manual rather than English. as the number of available languages it's available in could be another drawback to the current level of documentation.

Ormac 8)

Re: Simutrans reviewed in Freegamer

Reply #41 –
Quote from: Ormac – on
Regarding a complete bundle I think Prissi originally kept the game, pak sets and documentation seperate so people could choose exactly the configuration they wanted without having dead weight to download. Also the Starter Guide wasn't of the same quality as the Third Edition.
Also the average net connection breadth and speed are hugely increased in the last few years, so what in 2000 was a HUGE download is now just the average size. And the inclusive bundle wouldn't REPLACE the single pieces download, but be a friendlier alternative to the same.

Re: Simutrans reviewed in Freegamer

Reply #42 –
Good Morning,

My name is Venkat, and I am a technical writer by profession. Perhaps I can help you all in this. Please feel to reach me.

Regards,
Venkat

Re: Simutrans reviewed in Freegamer

Reply #43 –
I've found another Simutrans review from a spanish site called JuegosLibres.com. As far as I read, they like the way Simutrans world evolves along the time, and they also like the scenario's approach. They point out graphics as a weak point, compared with actual 3D games with multiplayer mode, but they seem to be impressed with simutrans deep gameplay.

IMHO, they mixed some concepts like consider Simutrans as OTTD (they don't mention OTTD explicitly) but in general, the critics are good. Simutrans is getting more famous!!

Re: Simutrans reviewed in Freegamer

Reply #45 –
First off, for the Starter Guide documentation, I will paraphrase:
"It's the images that make the Starter Guide so large."
and
"Without images and converted to html, the Starter Guide is around 250 Kb."
Good!  Keep it in html format, as everyone has their favorite web browser available to them (or hastily is fixing theirs ;) ).  If the pictures are so big, why are the resolutions so high?  What about cropping the image to what is really necessary?  Both of these simple, though occasionally time consuming, tasks could be applied which would be enough to get the idea across, and that really is the intent of the Starter Guide, is it not?  

Second, do NOT follow the "... For Dummies" theme for such documentation.  I found a similarly titled series for OpenGL which mentioned "Teach me like I'm a three year old."  I am neither an adolescent nor unintelligent, but I am rather insulted by the mere suggestion of such.  I am sure that the "... For Dummies" books have turned away a rather large number of people for just such a reason.  I will fully admit to being a beginner when first learning something new and untried.

Third, the F1 in game help is not helpful enough, Prissi.  It needs quite a bit of help itself, yet.  There are situations that F1 did not even have a hint of the topic, and the Starter and Reference guides were sp**** in their aid.  The railroad signals, particularly the choose signal and end of choose signal, are a particular example here; I was finally able to understand how to correctly use them after 4 months of playing (amount of available free time here).  The one graphic that was almost descriptive enough is still severely lacking.  

Fourth, I agree that the "Beginner's" version of the game should be fully bundled with the Starters Guide and at least one pakset, along with several (and different map!!!) scenarios to aid the person being introduced to our game.  For the "Intermediate" or "Advanced", the smaller file sizes of just what is desired or needed, be it only the core engine or the pakset, is appropriate.  And please allow a simple installer for linux/unix, with documentation on where it put the game and how to do the intermediate or advanced way of updating the game.

Fifth, the menu icons for stations frequently are hard to see which services they provide.  Menu designers should remember that color clashes are not the only thing to look out for; similar colors will hide whichever service the station is supposed to provide.  In pak128, there are a few that I know by rote memorization from experimentation that they offer freight service, but I can't discern the pile of coal from the depicted building.  

Sixth, the "On Mouseover" feature would be a great help, with the possibility of an option toggle for the advanced players.  Likewise, though would most likely need a trigger system or something to implement, a pop-up window stating what is missing yet for a basic transportation of goods would compliment the beginner scenarios.  


If we could put check marks next to each of these points, or at least the first five, I believe that would satisfy the majority of beginners (and reviewers) that initially have trouble playing our great game.

Re: Simutrans reviewed in Freegamer (in: Starter Guide for Simutrans WIKI)

Reply #46 –
Quote from: TrainMith – on
"Without images and converted to html, the Starter Guide is around 250 Kb."

We have a Wiki. http://wiki.simutrans.com/ We could port Starter Guide to Simutrans WIKI. This would be an EPIC WIN. ;D

Re: Simutrans reviewed in Freegamer

Reply #47 –
Quote from: TrainMith – on
Third, the F1 in game help is not helpful enough, Prissi.  It needs quite a bit of help itself, yet.  There are situations that F1 did not even have a hint of the topic, and the Starter and Reference guides were sp**** in their aid.  The railroad signals, particularly the choose signal and end of choose signal, are a particular example here; I was finally able to understand how to correctly use them after 4 months of playing (amount of available free time here).  The one graphic that was almost descriptive enough is still severely lacking.

Everybody can help to make simutrans better. If you think some things are bad, than write it better and publish it for the other users. ;)

Re: Simutrans reviewed in Freegamer

Reply #48 –
Freegamer,

thank you for the updates. One other thing; you mention in your original review that the track laying is fiddly. In recent versions, track laying by clicking and dragging is now possible (holding down CTRL to force straight lines), which makes laying diagonal track much easier. This has recently been extended to way objects (track electrification, etc.) and is planned to be extended to tunnels.
Download Simutrans-Extended.

Want to help with development? See here for things to do for coding, and here for information on how to make graphics/objects.

Follow Simutrans-Extended on Facebook.

Re: Simutrans reviewed in Freegamer

Reply #49 –
Quote from: TrainMith – on
First off, for the Starter Guide documentation, I will paraphrase:
"It's the images that make the Starter Guide so large."
and
"Without images and converted to html, the Starter Guide is around 250 Kb."
Good!  Keep it in html format, as everyone has their favorite web browser available to them (or hastily is fixing theirs ;) ).  If the pictures are so big, why are the resolutions so high?  What about cropping the image to what is really necessary?  Both of these simple, though occasionally time consuming, tasks could be applied which would be enough to get the idea across, and that really is the intent of the Starter Guide, is it not? 

The larger Screenshots are quick and keep me interested as the Author in maintaining the documentation.

Quote from: TrainMith – on
Second, do NOT follow the "... For Dummies" theme for such documentation.  I found a similarly titled series for OpenGL which mentioned "Teach me like I'm a three year old."  I am neither an adolescent nor unintelligent, but I am rather insulted by the mere suggestion of such.  I am sure that the "... For Dummies" books have turned away a rather large number of people for just such a reason.  I will fully admit to being a beginner when first learning something new and untried.

I AM NOT Taking a "...For Dummies" approach. I don't intend to belittle my audience or myself as the author.  I avoid the new user Internet phrases for a similar reason.


Quote from: TrainMith – on
Third, the F1 in game help is not helpful enough, Prissi.  It needs quite a bit of help itself, yet.  There are situations that F1 did not even have a hint of the topic, and the Starter and Reference guides were sp**** in their aid.  The railroad signals, particularly the choose signal and end of choose signal, are a particular example here; I was finally able to understand how to correctly use them after 4 months of playing (amount of available free time here).  The one graphic that was almost descriptive enough is still severely lacking. 

I understand that portions of the documentation may be lacking information perhaps because I haven't got round to writing it yet or it has become dated as Simutrans has moved forward. I do update older sections if I think it needs updating, sometimes I don't get round to it when I intended. Of cource if I don't know I may not get done.

If you have a request for something to be added,improved or corrected in the Simutrans Reference Material please make post about it on the Documentation and Manuals Board
 

Quote from: TrainMith – on
Sixth, the "On Mouseover" feature would be a great help, with the possibility of an option toggle for the advanced players.  Likewise, though would most likely need a trigger system or something to implement, a pop-up window stating what is missing yet for a basic transportation of goods would compliment the beginner scenarios. 

Mouse Over tips can be enabled/disabled in simuconfig.tab [The file is in the game simutrans/config/ Directory]

Line 355 # show tooltips (default 1=show)
Line356 show_tooltips = 0

There is currently no GUI element to do this

Ormac 8)

Re: Simutrans reviewed in Freegamer

Reply #50 –
The main problem with the ingame help (apart from nobods using it judging from the lack of feedback) is that it needs to be generic. Howevrsome pakset have choose signals while other deliberately do not incorporte them.

Nevertheless with the new tool system a tool dependent help file seems perfectly possible; now just the community needs to write them.

Re: Simutrans reviewed in Freegamer

Reply #51 –
Quote from: IgorTekton – on
We have a Wiki. http://wiki.simutrans.com/ We could port Starter Guide to Simutrans WIKI. This would be an EPIC WIN. ;D

Sorry, IgorTekton, but even in this day and age, not everyone has a direct internet connection to their computer.  Especially in older but less sp**** sections of cities in the USA, some internet providers are refusing to install faster physical lines or upgrading existing lines.  That also applies to standard phone service!  Besides that, some people do not want to pay for bundled tv and internet, since they do not spend enough time watching tv to justify the expense (yet the cable tv providers do not want to separate the services).  I use another computer to surf the web and download the files, transfer them to a USB thumb drive, and finally to my computer.  So an internet wiki is definitely not desired, here.
 

Re: Simutrans reviewed in Freegamer

Reply #52 –
Quote from: prissi – on
The main problem with the ingame help (apart from nobods using it judging from the lack of feedback) is that it needs to be generic. Howevrsome pakset have choose signals while other deliberately do not incorporte them.

couldn't the help text be pak-dependant? so that, once a default text is written, pak maintainers can adjust it to their paksets?