Hardware accelerated display, OpenGL back-end & Simutrans 3D

Topic: Hardware accelerated display, OpenGL back-end & Simutrans 3D (Read 233931 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Simutrans in 3D

Reply #105 – August 02, 2010, 12:57:38 pm

Yeah, I know that, but I think that gaming community would accept that kind of game on big scale. I can make a plan for every single aspect of the game, and try to push that idea to developing studios. I just dont know how to do that

We can start building something on our own too. But I am not developer, you are.

Re: Simutrans in 3D

Reply #106 – August 02, 2010, 01:07:50 pm

"Studios" sounds wrong to me somehow. So far I was thinking of a hobby/open source project, much like Simutrans itself is.

Personally, I'd be scared about the size of such a project. I've set my mind on much smaller projects, things that I can do within a few weeks and then call them finished. But this is just me, and I see in other places that people can stick with projects many years.

I'd say, start with the 3D change for Simutrans. If you can get that going, add the SimCity expansion.

Re: Simutrans in 3D

Reply #107 – August 02, 2010, 01:12:52 pm

Okay, I will think about that. But is is huge project already, cuz I need firstly to translate half of coding. God helps me. But, firstly, I will upload PDF with ideas. There are already a lot of thing that needs change.

Re: Simutrans in 3D

Reply #108 – August 06, 2010, 03:39:23 pm

Quote from: skreyola – on August 02, 2010, 12:13:48 am

@Vaclav: RRT2 uses a similar 3-d system... but you may be right about the relative age.

I am deeply sorry for quite delayed answer: Thanks for info. I looked on some screenshots - but it seems that this game (meant RRT2) uses mainly isometric 2D.

I still think that Simutrans does not need to be 3D - but some else things which are currently in queue of deprecated/denied features can be implemented instead it.

Re: Simutrans in 3D

Reply #109 – August 06, 2010, 10:07:24 pm

Quote from: VaclavMacurek – on August 06, 2010, 03:39:23 pm

I am deeply sorry for quite delayed answer: Thanks for info. I looked on some screenshots - but it seems that this game (meant RRT2) uses mainly isometric 2D.

I was going to say it was similar (3d) to Railroads, but looking at Youtube videos (It's been a while since I played RRT2 and I may have gotten rid of it), it looks like you're right. It just really feels 3d... perhaps because of the way track can be laid down.

Re: Simutrans in 3D

Reply #110 – August 07, 2010, 10:52:07 am

hello, I think that 2D Simutrans should continue developing, but that we really deserve something better looking and with more features, after almost 10 yrs. Good news is that I am almost finished with my PDF, and development project should be started soon, in one month max

Re: Simutrans in 3D

Reply #111 – August 13, 2010, 09:16:03 pm

Hello
i Find that simutrans cant not to be go in 3D.
3D requiend more power from the CPU´s,Graficcard,Ram and Harddisk.
A Computer or Laptop with 3D useable Graficchip,CPU,Harddisk and Ram cost
new more than 700€.
That is for some people very many money that not be growe on tree!

greenling

Re: Simutrans in 3D

Reply #112 – August 14, 2010, 10:03:47 am

I'm pretty sure that the 2D versions of Simutrans will continue to be developed. So it shouldn't be a problem if some people have older hardware, they just continue to use the versions and pak sets that they use now.

Slightly unrelated, but I'd still ****ume that a OpenGL rendering backend gives a performance boost, not a slowdown, if the rest of the code is kept as it is.

Quote from: eddielexx – on August 02, 2010, 01:12:52 pm

But is is huge project already, cuz I need firstly to translate half of coding.

I'm not quite sure why one would need to translate half of the coding to go 3D. In a first step, it would suffice to replace one of the rendering backends with one that supports 3D, like OpenGL or Direct3D. Also to adapt the pak files so they can store 3D models and textures instead of bitmaps.

But the rest of Simutrans can stay unchanged.

Anyways, I'm slightly curious what you actually will do

Re: Simutrans in 3D

Reply #113 – August 15, 2010, 08:04:08 am

What you suggest is to change only engine, so tile system can remain intact? That sounds good to me. And very possible to be done. Do you have MSN or FB or mail Hajo?

The only problem are Slopes. I still don't have any idea how to resolve that. The existing system is ofc obsolete and unusable in #d. Anyone has any idea?

Re: Simutrans in 3D

Reply #114 – August 15, 2010, 10:00:33 am

Mail icon is left of this posting

But since this discussion might be interesting for other people I'd prefer to keep it public. There might be more opinions and ideas how to implement a 3D view for Simutrans.

Why does the slope system not work in 3D? A tile in Simutrans has 4 corners, and each corner has a height (at least it was this way when I retired from coding ...) If you split the tile in two or four triangles, it should be quite straightforward to display a tile.

For the artificial slopes, you need additional quads or triangles to fill the gaps to the side and next lower tiles. Since Simutrans already knows where to put the slope bitmaps, it should be fairly straightforward to put extra quads and triangles there.

Prissi's concern was, that the storage of textures in the graphics memory can be a problem. My concern was that there might not be enough manpower to create the 3D models needed. Also there is a slight concern that Simutrans might show way too many models at once, so even modern GPUs might have problems to display, unless one implements tricks. Like several levels of detail (simpler models being used when many objects are on screen).

I think the basic coding is comparably easy, but the problems mentioned above will be the real problems that make or break the project.

Re: Simutrans in 3D

Reply #115 – August 15, 2010, 11:12:27 am

Quote from: Hajo – on August 14, 2010, 10:03:47 am

Slightly unrelated, but I'd still ****ume that a OpenGL rendering backend gives a performance boost, not a slowdown, if the rest of the code is kept as it is.

As I understand, SDL can use hardware acceleration for 2D rendering. But current simutrans engine don't relay rendering work to SDL.

Re: Simutrans in 3D

Reply #116 – August 15, 2010, 03:07:25 pm

Yes, Simutrans uses SDL only as a framebuffer and manages the bitmaps itself. This was done so to get maximum ease for porting to other rendering backends.

Re: Simutrans in 3D

Reply #117 – January 26, 2012, 08:47:29 pm

My information might not be up to date, but support for non-2^n (aka NPOT) textures depends on actual hardware and maybe driver as well. I wouldn't rule this out...