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Balance for 1830

Using pak128.britain-ex0.4

I have been trying to get p****engers to work in 1830. While any local routes seem to pick up p****engers, intercity routes do not. This is probably due to the time taken to get from one city to another as, even given a distance_per_tile setting of 25, the time to travel between two cities only 80 squares apart (small on the sort of maps that are being generated for use with pak128-britain) is greater than the time that p****egers wanting to travel this distance will wait. As well as making the early game more difficult than the late-game (the reverse of one of the aims of simutrans-exp), this is unrealistic as in the days of stagecoaches people were willing to take longer to travel than in the days of aircraft.
There are two possible solutions to this that I can see

the first of these is the complex, akward, and difficult to balance approach of having the p****enger settings dependant on the date.
The second is to make it so that there are always a few p****engers who are willing to take a much longer time to travel , and is, in the first instance only a case of changing the default values in simuconf.tab, although there may be a need to change the distribution of acceptable journey times. Looking at the times reached in my only serious game so far, doubling the maximum tolerance (and possibly reducing the minimum tolerance as well) will work for early trains, but something more extreme may be required for stagecoaches.

Re: Balance for 1830

Reply #1 –
Mjhn,

thank you for your feedback. It would help me if you could upload a saved game so that I can see this in action. Certainly, the intention is that some people will be perfectly willing to take a very long time to get anywhere, but that most people will only travel if their journey is within a reasonable time. There is no need to vary this with time, as that would be unrealistic. Increasing the tolerance spread for longer journies may be the way forward, but I shall have to look at the issue in action (i.e., your saved game) to consider what the numbers should be.

Thank you again for your feedback.
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Re: Balance for 1830

Reply #2 –
the acceptable journey time should be based on the speedbonus.tab. there is a causal connection, the time people are willing to wait is based on what is possible. the speedbonuses are also based on what speeds are possible at that time.

Re: Balance for 1830

Reply #3 –
Sdog,

it is not the times that people are willing to wait: it is the the maximum tolerance that people have for journey times. Journey times and waiting times are distinct in Simutrans-Experimental.

The reason that it does not vary with time is so that the journey time tolerance feature can be used to simulate the fact that a higher proportion of people travel longer distances in modern times than they did in times past precisely because the journey times are lower. In the 1780s, for example, a few stagecoaches were all that it took to transport all the people willing to be transported between London and Luton. A century later, and long, frequent trains were necessary. The growth in p****enger numbers was higher than the growth in the size of the towns themselves. As journey times decrease, so do the number of people travelling increase.
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Re: Balance for 1830

Reply #4 –
sorry typo, i meant the maximum journey time.

i'm not so sure however if time is the factor limiting travel. i rather think it's the cost and lack of telecommunication. (not so rich) people moved around quite a lot, but they mostly went by foot or later bicycles. much reduced telecommunication also gave less incentives to travel. time should not have been an important factor at all for most of the people.

you could reflect this only by greatly increasing the revenue per p****enger and km.

in modern times the speed of transport also increased p****enger numbers in certain examples: shinkansen between Kansai and Kanto region; TGV Paris-Lyon.

Re: Balance for 1830

Reply #5 –
Quote from: sdog – on
i'm not so sure however if time is the factor limiting travel. i rather think it's the cost and lack of telecommunication. (not so rich) people moved around quite a lot, but they mostly went by foot or later bicycles. much reduced telecommunication also gave less incentives to travel. time should not have been an important factor at all for most of the people.

Why do you say that?
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Re: Balance for 1830

Reply #6 –
Quote from: jamespetts – on
Why do you say that?

i don't have any sources for this statement, it's more a conclusion i took from different things i read over some time.

first i want to mention the bicycle. in the late 19th century it was developed far enough and through m**** production easily available to poorer people. this caused a steep increase in rural workers mobility. this enabled a much better flow of information. and is said to have enabled the socialist uprising of agricultuarl labourers in several european countries. (should be possible to find sources for this easily)

in most european countries was a day in the year where labourers and servants changed the employer. they typically walked to a different county to find work. typical distances in bavaria in 19th cent. should have been between 10 and 50 km.

alpinism in bavaria started in late 20th century, with the mountaineers cycling on a regular basis from munich to the alps. (100 to 200 km). wich was not completely uncommon, since many workers from the cities cycled on their free day to the countryside to buy food.

in china p****enger numbers often go down considerably when railroads are modernized, the high speed trains are far too expensive. a majority of the p****engers will not look on the duration of the trip at all, only on the price.
a faster connection only becomes interesting as soon as the saved time times the hourly wage is higher than the higher fare.

telecommunication causes more reasons to travel. examples: buying products far away; taking a distant job; contracts between businesses in different cities; information about distant touristic places;