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Topic: pak128.USA (Read 174492 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #175 –
Alright, the road networks have been finished. I attached a zip file containing all the completed roads and bridges. I suggest locating and removing the standard roads and bridges from the pak128 folder for the sake of simplicity. The best way is to copy them to the desktop to serve as a backup.

In total there are 9 new networks and 6 bridges. The bridges are just the simple road bridge textured for the new networks. These will need to be replaced/upgraded with new graphics later. In the game, these roads are available and balanced for the years 1912 - 2020. Prior to that the only road available is dirt with cobblestone in the cities.

To round out the set, a replacement dirt road would be most helpful, so would a better variety of timeline era specific bridges.. Any takers? ;)

I tested these rather extensively so graphical glitches or incorrect dat parameters *should* be non-existent. However, if you do find a problem please let me know so I can correct the problem..

Otherwise, please enjoy this beta version of [future] pak128.USA roads.  :) Sources to come later.


Unfortunately it seems I cannot attach the file (too large), and I keep getting an error at the files section of this site.. Suggestions?

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #176 –
http://files.[ simutrans [dot] us (site down, do not visit) ]/ exists precisely for this purpose. :)

I didn't write it - it's intended for paid usage, but it's free - you don't even have to log in, just poke around on the menu on the right :)

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #177 –
Quote from: Isaac.Eiland-Hall – on
http://files.[ simutrans [dot] us (site down, do not visit) ]/ exists precisely for this purpose. :)

I didn't write it - it's intended for paid usage, but it's free - you don't even have to log in, just poke around on the menu on the right :)

Thank you Isaac :)

Now, lets try this again.. Here is the completed roads and bridges, 15 total;

http://files.[ simutrans [dot] us (site down, do not visit) ]/files/get/ZUTAXA8Rsr/roads-v1.0.zip

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #178 –
Ugh! They're horrible! Nasty! Terrible!

Just kidding, I'm about to download - but they already look good in the screenshots, I just wanted to give you a scare. ;-)

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #179 –
Quote
Prior to that [1912] the only road available is dirt with cobblestone in the cities.

Did you have macadam roads in the past in the US? They could be a good fill in inbetween, for slow speeds up to 40 km/h (don't know whats that in US trivial units). Since they could support rather hight weights, they could still be interesting for large bulk carriers (Like the huge mining dump truck in pak128).:wq

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #180 –
Quote from: sdog – on
Did you have macadam roads in the past in the US? They could be a good fill in inbetween, for slow speeds up to 40 km/h (don't know whats that in US trivial units). Since they could support rather hight weights, they could still be interesting for large bulk carriers (Like the huge mining dump truck in pak128).:wq

There were macadam roads in the US from the 1830s onward. Still, they were very few in number.. I could rework the gravel road into a macadam..

In any case I was tired of looking at roads and railroad graphics so I decided to bring some of the awesome city "cars" from pak128.Britain and see how they fit in the period before the internal combustion engine. Suffice to say they look fantastic!  ;D

As a special treat, I took the covered wagon vehicle and combined it with the horse team and made it a city vehicle (see attached for sample) that will clog your streets from 1750 - 1890. A very special thanks to James Petts and James Hood for drawing the originals and making them open source.  ;)

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #181 –
I don't know if it's coincidence or not, but I'm getting ****ertion errors when I use these roads.

I made a copy of my nightly pak128open, removed ways and bridges, installed these.

I haven't nailed down how to reproduce yet, so it may just be that I'm doing something differently-- but I was making freeways similar to how I used to...

I'll update this further when I can repro - if it appears to be related to these roads (surely not, but...?)

I was going to upload a screenie, but I kept crashing. :-/

Meanwhile: They are very very nice roads. :)

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #182 –
Excellent work!  I am still working (slowly) on ****embling a from-the-ground-up pak build directory for USA, but there is no reason to wait for me -- keep on with the graphics! 

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #183 –
Well It may be too late but I have been working on a road way also. It's not totally done yet, but I went in a different direction with mine. Not really certain which period it fits with but it has both dashed and straight lines (for corners). I suppose it would be more modern era, perhaps post 50's? I got into a little more detail with mine though and added road blocks on dead-end roads as well as stop signs at intersections. If you think it's something worthy of being included in 128 USA let me know and I can touch it up a little more. At any rate, this is my first road pak so it was a good learning experience.

I was thinking about taking the roads in a different direction by varying the widths of the roads. Typically the rural roads are more narrow and highways wider to accommodate higher speeds. This road was simply the standard width but I can try different sizes if there is interest.

I also have a question on one of the Dat attributes for roads. I notice there is a max_weight setting, is this respected by vehicles? Does this mean a vehicle finding a way will not travel on roads that have a maximum_weight less than the vehicles weight? if so that excites me very much as I know we have roads restricted by vehicle weight in my part of the country. I'm guessing the value is in Tons?

If we are good on roads, I'll start playing with bridges.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #184 –
Quote from: Isaac.Eiland-Hall – on
I don't know if it's coincidence or not, but I'm getting ****ertion errors when I use these roads.

Let me know if you have any more problems tied to the roads.. I do not use pak128 open or any of the nightlies so maybe there is a conflict there?

Quote from: checksumdigit – on
Well It may be too late but I have been working on a road way also. It's not totally done yet, but I went in a different direction with mine. Not really certain which period it fits with but it has both dashed and straight lines (for corners). I suppose it would be more modern era, perhaps post 50's? I got into a little more detail with mine though and added road blocks on dead-end roads as well as stop signs at intersections. If you think it's something worthy of being included in 128 USA let me know and I can touch it up a little more. At any rate, this is my first road pak so it was a good learning experience.

I was thinking about taking the roads in a different direction by varying the widths of the roads. Typically the rural roads are more narrow and highways wider to accommodate higher speeds. This road was simply the standard width but I can try different sizes if there is interest.

I also have a question on one of the Dat attributes for roads. I notice there is a max_weight setting, is this respected by vehicles? Does this mean a vehicle finding a way will not travel on roads that have a maximum_weight less than the vehicles weight? if so that excites me very much as I know we have roads restricted by vehicle weight in my part of the country. I'm guessing the value is in Tons?

If we are good on roads, I'll start playing with bridges.

Looking good so far! I particularly like the idea of putting details on the roads.. I wonder if it would be feasible to add simple telegraph wires to the early dirt roads and railroads? Or perhaps even street lights on cityroads..

As for the variable width roads.. One problem - vehicle alignment would need to be extremely close to the center to ensure they flow well over all road networks. A solution would be to vary road width by era, and have vehicles closer in the early years and wider in the late years, however, that seems like a lot of extra work.

Next, AFAIK, the weight figure is not yet implemented. I always set mine at 50 on roads, simply because that was the default in the road dat files I have seen..

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #185 –
I just have to say that this is a great idea for a project. Love the idea. :D

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #186 –
Time for the next mini-update..

The next focus for me was railroad tracks. I modified the existing versions in pak128 for a full range of track types from the first railroads in 1828 to high speed rail, which is the most recent addition to the track types. The first high speed train (Acela Express) was introduced to the US in 2000, although the first true high speed rail line in the US will not be completed until at least 2015 (Tampa - Orlando). I added the high speed track slightly before the Acela was introduced for the purpose of realism.



I also modified the tram tracks. No screenshot yet, but basically the first tram track can now be built in 1836. It will be used by horsecars until 1889. In 1889 electric trolleys will be available, as well as an upgraded version of the track. Further track upgrades occur in 1953 and 1991. I also plan to add interurban railroads to the tram menu eventually..

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #187 –
I know it is a little early to be worrying about city buildings, but I could not resist experimenting with Raven's awesome graphics..

1750:

us (site down, do not visit) ]/image/show/-CnEPOK9I9/simscr00.png]

mid/late 1800s:

us (site down, do not visit) ]/image/show/UiFJrvJpwA/simscr01.png]

With the latter, I only have the completed pak files from the ancient pak128.usa, so it is not possible to edit their intro/retire dates. Raven also made a complete line of American steam locomotives that span the entire history of railroading, unfortunately they need rebalancing and there are no source files.


What I would like to know is what should be the established start date for pak128.USA? I was considering 1750 personally, since that is the date that stagecoach transportation would be feasible. Prior to that ships would have been the only means of transportation and the game might be a little boring.. Or we could set the minimum even later - around 1800 or 1850 when more transportation options are available..

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #188 –
These house are distinctively european, they are middle ages (before 1500) so not very american. I would rather ask the maker of the american desert graphics from OpenTTD for the permission to use their stuff I used in the thread further above.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #189 –
1880~1930 or so, there is an increase in red brick buildings.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #190 –
Concerning start date: For pak128 the preliminary plan is having fully playable timeline since 1870. Rationale for such relatively late date is that the game, as is, does not work that well with some parameters too dynamic. (I'd elaborate but typing on mobile is a form of torture) This means that at start, at least one transport mode must be mature by current standards... Then many things get simpler.

My projects... Tools for messing with Simutrans graphics. Graphic archive - templates and some other stuff for painters. Development logs for most recent information on what is going on. And of course pak128!

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #191 –
Quote from: prissi – on
These house are distinctively european, they are middle ages (before 1500) so not very american. I would rather ask the maker of the american desert graphics from OpenTTD for the permission to use their stuff I used in the thread further above.

The only problem with the OpenTTD buildings is they only fit one region of the US..

I rendered a house the other day that is American looking [see attached]. Probably would only fit the post-1990s era though..

Quote from: VS – on
Concerning start date: For pak128 the preliminary plan is having fully playable timeline since 1870. Rationale for such relatively late date is that the game, as is, does not work that well with some parameters too dynamic. (I'd elaborate but typing on mobile is a form of torture) This means that at start, at least one transport mode must be mature by current standards... Then many things get simpler.

In that case, I think 1830 or so would be a good place to start. It is around that date that US railroads were born, and there would be plenty of options for transit networks..

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #192 –
Canals were prevalent even toward the end of George Washington's life (he was a founder of the Chesapeake & Ohio Canal Company later C&O Railway), and shipping was certainly around before then.  I am hopeful of a timeline similar to pak128.Britain's.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #193 –
You can have the pak128.USA with climates; maybe tropical is rather plains, and desert is, well desert, where you could use those houses.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #194 –
Quote from: prissi – on
You can have the pak128.USA with climates; maybe tropical is rather plains, and desert is, well desert, where you could use those houses.

Isn't Florida tropical?
Mediterranean: California

by far the largest would be temperate climate, and that would include the prairies.

You can probably do away with tundra climate entirely.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #195 –
If Alaska and Hawaii are included, there is definitely a use for alpine and tropical... :)

And yes, south Florida is tropical - but since climate is still based on level, it's probably less important for just that part of one state. :)

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #196 –
Quote from: AEO – on
Isn't Florida tropical?
Mediterranean: California

by far the largest would be temperate climate, and that would include the prairies.

You can probably do away with tundra climate entirely.

If Canada is included in this set, the Canada specific objects could be limited to the tundra climate.. Of course not all of Canada is tundra, but at least that way it would be possible to create a specifically Canadian building set independent of the US set.

The tropical climate will probably be adapted to represent the Southern US, which has a humid subtropical climate and differs from the temperate climate of the Northeast, Midwest, and Plains regions. Alpine could represent the Rocky Mountains..

Of course, I would like to finish waytypes before working on buildings and such. Right now I am trying to fix a couple of graphical glitches in the roads, it is rather difficult to get the lines on the diagonal roads to line up properly..

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #197 –
And Desert for the Southwest... tile-roofed buildings etc... hmm... I like the way this is going...

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #198 –
Quote from: VS – on
I got all 3 items - paks, decompiler and images. So... I should give this to whom? ;)

Is there any chance of the images/dat files from Raven's US train and bus sets being shared here? Nearly all of his buses need re-alignment and an overhaul of their costs. Would be a shame for them to go to waste, because those really are some nice buses and trains.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #199 –
Developments looking interesting so far - the birth of a pakset! Any chance of a Simutrans-Experimental version?
Download Simutrans-Extended.

Want to help with development? See here for things to do for coding, and here for information on how to make graphics/objects.

Follow Simutrans-Extended on Facebook.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #200 –
It's good to see I'm not the only American that plays Simutrans!  ;D 

Keep up the good work!

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #201 –
*waves* Hello, fellow American! :)

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #203 –
Really, America is where transportation took off. For a long time, America was in the lead for speed, power, and new modes of transportation. The Internal combustion and airplane were invented here. The first train to ever exceed 100 mph was American, if I remember correctly. But simutrans is fun, even though it was not set up for the USA.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #204 –
Combustion engine and cars were actually more an european effort (mostly France and Germany):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_internal_combustion_engine

As to which engine really reached undoubtely 100mph ... for 93 mph it would be a 1907 german, but for 100 mph it might be an american: http://www.germansteam.co.uk/Tonup/Tonup.html
(The fastest steam loco might be german: http://www.germansteam.co.uk/FastestLoco/fastestloco.html)

Anyhow, the need for speed was quite universal from the 1880ies (and thus many inventions are made in many places simultaniously), but only after the "civilisation" of the central plaines and the west and the recovering from civil war the USA economy could take off. So until 1900 (or even more until world war first) the USA was not yet the global player it has been since then.

This, on the other hand mean that vehicles (apart from railway engines) could be were well shared between different paksets for the before 1900 era.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #205 –
The world record for a steam locomotive is held by a British locomotive, "Mallard".
Download Simutrans-Extended.

Want to help with development? See here for things to do for coding, and here for information on how to make graphics/objects.

Follow Simutrans-Extended on Facebook.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #206 –
The last two links Prissi posted from germansteam.co.uk are an interesting read.  The writer is looking through available documents to see if what is accepted as record holders is actually true. 

Cl**** 05 002 held the record for fastest locomotive, but the Mallard beat it by 2km/h a couple of years later.  The writer above argues that 002 should still be considered the fastest, as the Mallard's run was downhill, and had to stop after 40 miles due to overheated bearings, while 002 ran on level ground, and made it to the end.  002 also was able to repeat the high speeds, Mallard only has one other undocumented account.

As for the first to hit 100mph, that's hard to say.  The first locomotive to officially hit 100mph was the Flying Scotsman.  Four locomotives claim to have done it first, however their speed was measured using milepost timing (ie. measure the time between two mileposts), which is not precise enough to establish a speed record.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #207 –
I admit this: the Mallard was fast, and could hold that speed. It also holds the current speed record for steam. I got my facts mixed up. 

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #208 –
The Mallard could not hold the speed, and was out of the track a short while after with an overheated bearing. Moreover the 126 mph was only reached for 60 yards? This sound more like a malfunction of the recording car. But reading the above links is really worth it, if you are into steam engines!

The fastest steam engines ever were probably even the Hiwatha cl**** Atlantic and F7, which run up to 100-110 mph on normal schedule and had the power to exceed 120 mph. Why there was never a record attempt with them is not sure; maybe because also diesel-/electric engines would be surely able to beat them?

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #209 –
I'm pretty sure, with steam, you can either maintain a certain power, or build up pressure to build up power temporarily. What will happen after giving that extra boost of power, is that the pressure drops and so does the power, which will basically cause the engine to limp to the next water station.
or something to that degree, because I can't remember exactly what was said, or where I've heard it.