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Issue/bug tracking tools

What do people think of the possibility of using some sort of web-based issue or bug tracking tool for Simutrans-Experimental, and, does anyone know of any suitable (free) tool? I think that it might be helpful to co-ordinate efforts, especially as we now have several people working on the project, and could be use to queue bug fixes, feature requests, etc.
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Re: Issue/bug tracking tools

Reply #1 –
Honestly?  I know of several tools, but I don't really have positive ****ociations with any of them.  You always end up with a long list of mouldering bugs which nobody fixes and then you look bad, and then you end up with old bugs which have been fixed but nobody noticed, and so on and so forth.  And this is on projects where there are people who do nothing but go through the bug lists rechecking them and trying to fix them.

I guess if you're having trouble keeping track of your TODO list then something like this is helpful.  I've been finding the forum surprisingly effective for bug tracking actually.

Re: Issue/bug tracking tools

Reply #2 –
In my opinion it's surprisingly hard to find something good in this field. But that is to decide for actual users, not me :)

Depending on the costs of setting up and leaving, it might be best to simply start using something - and abandon it if it's not convenient.

My projects... Tools for messing with Simutrans graphics. Graphic archive - templates and some other stuff for painters. Development logs for most recent information on what is going on. And of course pak128!

Re: Issue/bug tracking tools

Reply #3 –
Sourceforge has a bugtracking system for projects, that could be used. I definitely think it's a good idea to have one. I reckon some types of people can be quite motivated by the more structured approach of a formal bug tracker.
Maybe it'll be used, maybe not - but it only takes a few clicks by a simutrans project admin to activate so I think it's worth a shot. There's also some functions that simply can't be replicated by using a forum, e.g. dependencies and meta-bugs. A bugtracker also makes things easier to follow, e.g. one can see straight away if a bug only affects a certain platform, whether it affects just std or just exp or both, etc.
As for the mouldering bugs.. there could be a "policy" to simply close bugs with a standard notice once they haven't seen activity in say 3 months. Then if the reporter (or anyone else) finds that the bug is in fact still existent it can always be re-opened. And if nobody can be bothered to perform this task - who cares. Anyone who actually tries simutrans will see it's a great game, irrespective of the open bug count :)

Re: Issue/bug tracking tools

Reply #4 –
There was a bug tracker for simutrans. It was not used, since you need an sourceforge account (or else it will be flooded with spam). Furthermore, most bug reports come from users, which have their troubles with a bug tracker.

Bug trackers are for programming educated ones. Thus they work for compilers and libraries. For the normal user a forum seems to work better.

Re: Issue/bug tracking tools

Reply #5 –
Quote from: prissi – on
Bug trackers are for programming educated ones. Thus they work for compilers and libraries. For the normal user a forum seems to work better.
Actually, my prime example of a bug tracker not really working very well is the GCC bug tracker.  There are bugs in there which have been open since before gcc 2.95 and are still not fixed, including a few with known solutions (-fno-schedule-insns, for instance).  And there are people who do nothing but cleaning up the bug DB and tracking down bugs on that project; so for GCC it's better than nothing (their only alternative is an unthreaded email mailing list), but it's still terrible.  And it requires a login/registration to submit a bug.

The only system I know which doesn't require registration in order to submit bugs is Debian's bug tracking system, which is moderately effective (but also a m****ive heavyweight operation requiring substantial maintenance, and very badly subject to mouldering bugs).

Re: Issue/bug tracking tools

Reply #6 –
it looks to me like the way it is now it works very well?

this could lead to low use of the bugtracker, but still a lot of work for the maintainer.

on the other hand, things that aren't quickly fixed and not m****ive tend to get lost in a forum after a while. bugtrackers make them very obvious.

prissi has a very good point about the users, who hardly ever report bugs to bugtrackers. it takes some responsibility and work from the experienced or more involved forum visitors to submit bugs posted in the forum.
I've seen it quite often in mod projects that users who reported bugs to a forum were rather roughly told to post to the bugtracker and not to disturb the forum with it. The result is obvious, bugs just won't be reported anymore.

Re: Issue/bug tracking tools

Reply #7 –
There is a bug tracker for both freeciv and GM for mac, why not those. Or Sourgefourge.

FreeCiv uses Gna!.org, www.gna.org
GM for mac uses the Mantis bug tracker. http://www.mantisbt.org/

Re: Issue/bug tracking tools

Reply #8 –
I think the way it is now, does work very well. Creating yet another account to report a bug is a much more higher hurdle than using an already existing forum account. If you do not have a forum account, then creating a forum account is much more useful than creating a bug-reporting account.

What could be improved is the way bug reports are organized: we have only 'active' and 'closed/solved' bug reports. Maybe add a category  'unconfirmed' .. a bug is reported, but no one could reproduce it and the bug opener disappeared.

And adding similar subboards to the experimental board (and other bug-reporting boards) would simplify things for James.
Parsley, sage, rosemary, and maggikraut.

Re: Issue/bug tracking tools

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Dwachs – on
And adding similar subboards to the experimental board (and other bug-reporting boards) would simplify things for James.

I'd find that very helpful :-)
Download Simutrans-Extended.

Want to help with development? See here for things to do for coding, and here for information on how to make graphics/objects.

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Re: Issue/bug tracking tools

Reply #10 –
Why not using the same system, that Simutrans Standard uses?
Would be best, if Simutrans Experimental got its own board then.
The journey is the reward!
 

Re: Issue/bug tracking tools

Reply #11 –
Well replacing the forum with a bugtracker would definitely be a bad idea, but having it additionally might be worth considering. OTOH if the current system works well - "never touch a running a system" ;)