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Topic: Some strategy help requested (Read 10714 times) previous topic - next topic

Some strategy help requested

I have a few questions on helping to survive the initial part of the game.

I know one has to concentrate on coal and oil for the first level but I'm unsure what the best train configurations are. Is it better to spend a bit more money on more expensive (faster) tracks and trains or use as cheap as possible (with slower earnings)?

What about using trucks instead of trains in the beginning? Better or worse?

Also often there are very little coal and oil opportunities in a game. Should I (as the government) add more coal industry or are there alternatives?

Greetings and thanks,

Re: Some strategy help requested

Reply #1 –
Well I find it perfectly possible to start with just p****enger services (a few towns with a bus service round each linked by a train) but if you are going down the coal/oil route:
Be careful about the length of platforms - too long and the maintainence costs will eat into your potential profits.
Engines should be powerful enough to cope with length of trains you choose (but not over powerful). You don't want trains taking forever to get from the mine to power station, but quick acceleration isn't a priority at this stage.
Tracks should be the lowest speed generally (unless speed of trains is much higher). You may want to upgrade selected parts of your track where you know trains will be able to reach a higher speed rather than the whole track.

You can always add more industries (whether you think this is "cheating" is a matter for you :) )

Re: Some strategy help requested

Reply #2 –
Quote from: kierongreen – on
Well I find it perfectly possible to start with just p****enger services (a few towns with a bus service round each linked by a train) but if you are going down the coal/oil route:
Be careful about the length of platforms - too long and the maintainence costs will eat into your potential profits.
Engines should be powerful enough to cope with length of trains you choose (but not over powerful). You don't want trains taking forever to get from the mine to power station, but quick acceleration isn't a priority at this stage.
Tracks should be the lowest speed generally (unless speed of trains is much higher). You may want to upgrade selected parts of your track where you know trains will be able to reach a higher speed rather than the whole track.

You can always add more industries (whether you think this is "cheating" is a matter for you :) )

Hmm, what is 'too long'? I don't have a feel about the game yet. I usually make stations of three tiles. Is that too long? What I was doing right now is to use a three-tile station and then tracks for 110km/hour with an engine that could do just 110km/hour. Is that excessive?

Greetings,

Re: Some strategy help requested

Reply #3 –
3 tiles is fine (if anything you may want slightly longer - 4 or 5 with a train to fill the length of the platform). If the engine can only just do 110km/h then you can probably use the tracks one level slower than that most of the time (it would only rarely get to 110km/h with a fully loaded goods train).

Re: Some strategy help requested

Reply #4 –
How do you calculate how powerful a train has to be to carry (for example) 5 wagons? Say I selected the cheapest track 65 km/h with a station of four tiles. There are several trains I can choose here. A few examples:

RVg-0-4-4-0 (steam): cost 28200 (3.23/km), 1172kW, 60km/h
RVg-2-5-1 (steam): cost 21300 (2.41/km), 552kW, 62km/h
JNR_B6 (steam): cost 9400 (1.05/km), 294kW, 65km/h
RVg-1-4-1 (steam): cost 38000 (3.37/km), 1330kW, 70km/h
JNR_C11 (steam): cost 12600 (1.43/km), 596kW, 73km/h
RVg-S033-Red Dwarf (diesel): cost 19000 (1.36/km), 1370kW, 70km/h
1Benst181 (diesel): cost 18900 (1.35/km), 2530kW, 70km/h

Would the 1Benst181 be the best choice here? It is powerful and it doesn't seem to cost much every km.

Greetings,

Re: Some strategy help requested

Reply #5 –
Ok, I don't get it. I made three trains. Two coal trains to a power station and one oil train to a refinery. The are all three making profit. Now I'm out of money to make a fourth train so I press the fast forward button. But my money level is stable. It goes up and down but on average it stays the same. So I'm not going bankrupt but not earning enough to do anything new.

What did I do wrong? I picked the cheapest train tracks except for a few longer tracks and then I picked the cheapest locomotive (but still with sufficient power to get decent speed). My stations are four tiles and on the power station I even share a station with the two coal mines that are connected to it. So it seems ok but I'm not getting a lot of earnings. I think I'm missing something essential here.

Greetings and thanks,

Re: Some strategy help requested

Reply #6 –
What happens if you just build the lines coal mines to power stations? If you are just delivering oil to refinery then that's not going to work in the long term as the refinery will eventually need you to start delivering goods before it will accept more oil. Also have you set the trains to wait for 100% load before setting off (from coal mine or oil well)?

Re: Some strategy help requested

Reply #7 –
Quote from: kierongreen – on
What happens if you just build the lines coal mines to power stations? If you are just delivering oil to refinery then that's not going to work in the long term as the refinery will eventually need you to start delivering goods before it will accept more oil. Also have you set the trains to wait for 100% load before setting off (from coal mine or oil well)?

Two things: first I'm using beginner mode and I thought that that means that the restriction of having to deliver goods was not there?

Secondly my refinery does actually deliver to a tank station now. I added a fourth train (putting me slightly in red). Both the oil and the gasoline trains are making very good profit. The coal trains don't do as well.

I set the trains to 80%.

Greetings,

Re: Some strategy help requested

Reply #8 –
Set them to 100% (at least to start with!) :) For p****enger trains it can be desirable to have a regular service rather than waiting for 100% but for goods it's usually preferable. Yes in beginners mode I don't think you have to complete chains (from what I remember, I've never used it myself).

Re: Some strategy help requested

Reply #9 –
I agree with a comment made earlier. I always start with p****engers. I make bus routes in all cities that end with a main train station/bus stop in each city. Then I connect all those main station/stops with train service. Then In put the game on fast forward and go fix me some coffee. By the time I get back, I usually have enough cash to do whatever I please after that.

With oil and coal, I make six tile stations and use ten cars per train (in beginner mode). That usually creates plenty of profit. Also, if I deliver oil to a refinery, I go ahead and complete the cycle and deliver plastic/gas to the final consumer. I just prefer to complete the chain so I don't forget about it later. Also, I find that there's more profit in finished goods than simply delivering raw material.

Another profit potential that's often overlooked is p****engers to factories. Early in the game, you will go in the hole trying to deliver p****engers to every factory. However, if you've got a p****enger train or bus already going right by a factory, pluck down a stop or station and pick up the few dollars/pesos/whatever currency you'll recieve from workers trying to get back and forth to work. I found that this also cuts back on road traffic to and from factories if there is a road to it. If there's too much road traffic to a factory, it tends to clog the roads and take longer for trucks to get to them. The longer it takes for a truck to get there, the less profit you'll make.

I hope that helps in any way.

Re: Some strategy help requested

Reply #10 –
Quote from: greasemonkeyredneck – on
I agree with a comment made earlier. I always start with p****engers. I make bus routes in all cities that end with a main train station/bus stop in each city. Then I connect all those main station/stops with train service. Then In put the game on fast forward and go fix me some coffee. By the time I get back, I usually have enough cash to do whatever I please after that.

Strange, the tutorials on simutrans say to avoid p****engers for a beginner since they are more complicated to get profit from.

Greetings,

Re: Some strategy help requested

Reply #11 –
Well, I guess they mean that you should not start with p****engers if you don't have experience enough in Simutrans. P****engers have a lot of different destinations, so you need a wide transport network to support them. Goods have a clear origin and destination, they go point to point, from a specific stop o another. P****engers may go to any stop that has p****engers enable. Therefore, you have more bussines oportunities but you need to invest more money.

Re: Some strategy help requested

Reply #12 –
Also this manual was written mainly for an very old pak64 and the pak128, where coal and oil are still very productive. I would say, as soonas you have a shipping route for some goods, you have found a money making machine. Use it and continue from there ...

Re: Some strategy help requested

Reply #13 –
Quote from: greasemonkeyredneck – on
I agree with a comment made earlier. I always start with p****engers. I make bus routes in all cities that end with a main train station/bus stop in each city. Then I connect all those main station/stops with train service. Then In put the game on fast forward and go fix me some coffee. By the time I get back, I usually have enough cash to do whatever I please after that.

How do you do that? With only 300000 euro to start with I can just make one train connection between two big cities and in each of these cities I can make one bus connection from the train station to the other side of town.

If I fast forward that situation I soon get bankrupt.

Greetings,

Re: Some strategy help requested

Reply #14 –
You can get more credits (money) from the begining just modifying the file simuconf.tab, located at simutrans/config/. You have to change some values from money stuff section that should:
Code: [Select]
# Starting money of the player. Given in Credit cents (1/100 Cr)
#starting_money = 20000000

# Maintenance costs of buildings
#maintenance_building = 2000

# first stops: the actual cost is (cost*level*width*height)
#cost_multiply_dock=500
#cost_multiply_station=600
#cost_multiply_roadstop=400
#cost_multiply_airterminal=3000
#cost_multiply_post=300
#cost_multiply_headquarter=1000

# cost for depots
#cost_depot_rail=1000
#cost_depot_road=1300
#cost_depot_ship=2500

# other way related stuff
#cost_signal=500
#cost_tunnel=10000
#cost_third_rail=80

# other construction/destruction stuff
#cost_alter_land=1000
#cost_buy_land=100
#cost_set_slope=2500
#cost_found_city=5000000
#cost_multiply_found_industry=20000
#cost_remove_tree=100
#cost_multiply_remove_haus=1000
#cost_multiply_remove_field=5000

Re: Some strategy help requested

Reply #15 –
Quote from: vilvoh – on
You can get more credits (money) from the begining just modifying the file simuconf.tab, located at simutrans/config/. You have to change some values from money stuff section that should:

Hmm. But isn't that cheating a bit?

Greetings,

Re: Some strategy help requested

Reply #16 –
It depends on you. Somebody would be agree with you, others would say that it might help you to get some background in Simutrans. It's not ilegal, that's for sure.... :D

P.S: Simutrans doesn't have cheats, indeed.

Re: Some strategy help requested

Reply #17 –
Thanks for all the help. I think I got the hang of it. I now have six trains running (oil, plastics, wood, ...). I started with only 300000 and I'm making good profit now if I fast forward things.

Greetings,

Re: Some strategy help requested

Reply #18 –
Quote from: jorrit – on
How do you calculate how powerful a train has to be to carry (for example) 5 wagons?

Actually the depot will show you how fast your current train will go (in the latest versions at least), with both the lightest and the heaviest good of its category. So no need to calculate that yourself.

When I start a game (in pak128) with goods, I only build the low speed track - no matter the distances involved. The 110km/h tracks are only used years later on specific tracks (and/or when I make enough money to upgrade).

Another important factor is to keep stations as cheap as possible, by a) not making them too long (4-6 tiles is enough) and b) only use the cheapest type of station. So since the only freight station in the beginning, the "coal station" (cost 7800 per tile) is very expensive, I just use the "simple platform" (600 per tile) instead, and just add either a single "freight warehouse" (2500) or a "goods station building" (3000). That way, even a complete 6-tile station (6*600+3000=6600) is cheaper than just a single tile of the coal station (7800) - and the ratio should be the same for maintenance as well.
  
***** PAK128 Dev Team - semi-retired*****

Re: Some strategy help requested

Reply #19 –
Quote from: DirrrtyDirk – on
Another important factor is to keep stations as cheap as possible, by a) not making them too long (4-6 tiles is enough) and b) only use the cheapest type of station. So since the only freight station in the beginning, the "coal station" (cost 7800 per tile) is very expensive, I just use the "simple platform" (600 per tile) instead, and just add either a single "freight warehouse" (2500) or a "goods station building" (3000). That way, even a complete 6-tile station (6*600+3000=6600) is cheaper than just a single tile of the coal station (7800) - and the ratio should be the same for maintenance as well.

I didn't know that was possible. But I can't find the 'goods station building' nor the 'freight warehouse' in my version of SimuTrans (1.100 with pak128). I have:

* CoalTrainStop: 7800
* Container2TrainStop: 3000
* FreightTrainStop: 1800
* Container1TrainStop: 1800

I tried it with Container2TrainStop (i.e. one of those and the rest the simple station of 600) and it seemed to work indeed. Would it also work with Container1TrainStop?

Greetings and thanks,


Ah I see. The differences appear to be mostly  in the storage capabilities of the station itself. But if a station is only connected to a single factory and the train services the factory often enough then the station probably doesn't need *that* much storage capabilities does it?

Greetings,


I found the Bulk_StationBlg now. I need it at the destination (i.e. powerplant) but it seems I can avoid it at the source (coal mine). Apparently the default capacity of the cheapest station is sufficient to hold whatever the coal mine produces (unless it is one that produces a lot in a day) and by the time the train returns it still hasn't filled up completely (the station I mean). So I guess it is good if I do it like that?

Greetings,


Note by Admin: Please, do not make multiple posts in sequence. Use "Modify" button.
- IgorTekton

Re: Some strategy help requested

Reply #20 –
Yes, you can do it like that. And you only need any of these external buildings, as long as none of the station tiles already enables goods. So if you have just a single tile of coal station, freight station, container etc. already in your station, you don't need any external building at all. That's just required when you have a station consisting a 100% of simple platforms (which doesn't enable any goods (nor p****engers, nor mail) - or if you want to increase a station's capacity without changing its platforms.


And please:

Do not double- (or even triple!  >:( ) post! :police:

You can edit your earlier message to add things. Only open up a new post when either somebody else posted in between or at least 24h have p****ed.
  
***** PAK128 Dev Team - semi-retired*****

Re: Some strategy help requested

Reply #21 –
Hmm sorry about that. I thought it was better to make new posts since then people get notification (if they are subscribed to the thread) by email when I add something. I don't think there is such a notification when you edit a post?

Anyway, I'll edit my posts in the future :-)

Greetings,

Re: Some strategy help requested

Reply #22 –
No, I don't think there's a notification when you edit your post. Nonetheless, even though your intentions were good, it's still against the forum rules to do so - so yes, please edit in the future.  :)
  
***** PAK128 Dev Team - semi-retired*****