Hope you dont mind me posting into such an old post. I couldn't find this guidance in the manual and despite its age this post seems to be the latest on the subject.
I share the same sentiments of Isaac who ages ago said ..'I'm very very thankful for this'. It just helped me to work out how to build an underground slope, curve and station. (V111 Pak128)
"It can store 500 steel, 300 plastic," - before it ceases to demand any more steel and plastic. It can store much more than this - unlimited in fact.
When it ceases to demand any more the industries supplying the steel and plastic will cease production if they no longer have an outlet for their goods and they reach their output storage capacity. In this way a whole industry chain could eventually shut down.
The above is true in the simpler and stable standard that I play.
80/20 rule. Deliver 80% of something for 20% of the effort. Often better to deliver benefit like this than try for 100%, spend a lot of time, and maybe even fail. (bit like that inland fishing port problem recently which could have benefited from a simple solution rather than failing because checking for a shipping route was too complex)
I played 2 years ago and the order of p****enger pick up seemed to be the same as now, B, C, D, E (Standard versions).
In real life I never see waiting p****engers sort them selves in order of distance to be traveled, neither shortest or longest have priority. First come, first served. (+plus a bit of queue jumping here or there)
Maybe you can alter the bus stopping order?: A>B>C>D>E>D>C>B> is presumably what you have now. A>E>D>C>B> would alter the load (and stopping order) to what you want A>B>C>D>E>D>C>B>A>E>D>C>B would mix it up a bit alternating the stopping and loading pattern.
Yes they did produce Barley. Hops and Barley. Sorry..I had meant to say Barley in the above post. Everything looked right to produce Beer. Good job.
Questions on game mechanics now. a) If I continue to grow towns will more industry spawn despite the fact that I am not connecting any of it? b) Do you expect those new files to work on my existing saved game?
The unique combination of version/addon that you are using might turn off some people from commenting. It will almost certainly mean fewer will download it as (I ****ume) it wont work unless they also have those same pak and addon files. I first saw your post a few days ago during a quick couple of minutes from an internet PC in my holiday hotel..at €1 euro for 10mins I was too tight to fork out for extra time to do a response whilst on holiday.
Adding tourist industry will almost certainly cause increased p****enger flows and another round of p****enger efficiency/capacity changes...that is if your pak works the same way as most others.
Thank you for the new files. Ive put them into V102 pak.German and ran some tests.
1) Set up new game.(twice). Both times I had spawns of the new hop producing industries. On no occ****ion did the Barley Field (renamed in the new file) appear. That remains limited to Tundra terrain.
2) My existing save game ran without any crashes.
3) Existing save game put on fast forward 11 years. Some new industry chains appeared but no Barley. Not yet.
Question: I am on fast forward and have not connectted any of the new industries that have appeared. Will this prevent further new industries from appearing?
Observation: some of the industries have names that start with lower case. The industry listing is case sensitive. See screenshot above. Could all industries be named with a capital letter first so they sort correctly. (or sort made not case sensitive)
Any thoughts about the speed bonus/penalties? The crocodiles are cheap and powerful yet are slow and will incur speed penalties. Do you think Chemicals and Goods might benefit from an alternative lcocmotive? SL C62 perhaps?
That's some first post. How long did it take to put it together? Must have been quite a while.
My thought is the fishery stopped producing fish destined for the cannery because the cannery was full of fish. The cannery effectively stopped demanding fish.
Ive never played with those industries in any game but I ****ume the cannery needs Steel and Fish (or Steel and Meat) in order to produce canned food. As no Steel was supplied the fish stocks at the cannery went over 1500 so no new fish supplies were 'caught' for the cannery. All catches were for the Food Factory (any already in transit for the cannery were ok).
Does that fit with your experiment?
Ive had incomplete industry chains often. Had your experiment been in my game I would have delivered fish to the cannery as slowly as possible and made sure the 1500 storage limit was not exceeded. Fish for the cannery would have been deliberately piled up somewhere en-route until the industry chain could be completed.
I disabled player change in my game. So I instead started a new one and allowed player change. Followed your guidance and sure enough in v102 Tundra is the only terrain suitable for a Barley farm. So it seems my game is stuck with incomplete hop/brewery chains for now.
Sorry for the delay with my response to the above replies (been away on holiday).
In the German wiki link that Frank provided, I reasoned that white colour meant the industry was available for that terrain. The oil rig for instance is coloured white and available. So I had ****umed the Barley field should be available everywhere except tundra.
But..sanna..you are into the understanding of the game better than I and you have tried to resolve this. So Barley should only appear in tundra? Doesn't seem logical.
You are right about my map. Its a map of Germany downloaded from a map site. Ive used it unaltered. It is quite flat. No tundra that I can see.
Frank..Is Barley provided by a Gerstenhof? Should we be able to have Barley in V102?
Most my games are late 1800's. Weak locomotives..so 3 tiles long is the normal length. On quiet branch line to tourist location a two tile station is enough. Really just depends on volume.
A one length would be enough if a modern EMU or DMU offerred enough capacity.
Hello. Id like to see your pictures...brings the game to life and good to get ideas.
I upload my pictures to Imagshack. Free and having used it for years find its very easy. They give you ready made links for forums so a IT novice like me can easily copy and paste the links/thumbnails into the forum.
Ive been playing around as well as Ive not played in this era before.
I changed the rails around the Car plant. So there are fewer trains crossing each other.
With the improved flow of Car carrying trains the car dealership would soon be over supplied. SO ive created a car storage station just next to the dealership. The cars are taken there and not to the dealership. Three car transporting lorries complete the route and deliver a few cars to the dealership.
Edit: Im off on holiday for a week now...cant play anymore but might pop onto forum if i get bored of drinks and sun....
I spent a lot of money when I tweaked it...net wealth went down. Although it was returned to profitable operation so should have recovered given time. Should go up provided the industries dont get full up. Car dealership in particular fillled up when I carried on. That made that chain less profitable.
How did you manage to have full city coverage of your stops? ... Is it something I am missing or am I blind
Blind I can see bus stops on many streets. The stop "! Central Paraso" for instance has a big coverage. Capacity 15,840 and over 12,000 p****engers waiting.
When my game started in 1876 there was 1 hop field, 1 brewery, and 1 marketplace. These are three of the four parts for the Beer making industry. Whats missing is Barley. There was no Barley in the initial game spawn.
Ive played for 7 years and this incomplete industry chain has not been altered by Simutrans in any way. I had hoped the game would spawn the missing Barley industry..or logically close down the unproductive industry. But no..nothing had happened to any industry..until tonight.
A new industry chain. 2 industries at the largest town which had recently p****ed 3000 Population (a 3000 trigger perhaps?). Great I thought. Maybe its the missing Barley so I can Brew some Beer at last. Ive got plenty of Hops stored near the Brewery...just need the Barley.
Then the disbelief. Another Brewery and another Marketplace. I don't need either. Why has Simutrans spawned another incomplete chain?
Is this a design floor in the game engine, or a gap/bug in the Pak design? Either way I'm gutted and really thirsty. Theres only so much wine and water I can drink before I need a Beer.
Franks attention to detail listing all that's changed is excellent isn't it. Great job Frank.
Speaking as a user of pak.German 102 my take is that most of whats changing looks like vehicle specific enhancements. Well worth having.
The bit however that is significant is whats highlighted by Frank. A significant game play alteration. Cargo production will grind to a halt if somewhere along the route becomes overcrowded. That was the reason I didn't try to get the earlier patch for 102 working..I don't want that to happen in my game.
So I'm sticking with 102 for now..and at the rate I play will be months before I'm ready to start a new game. Will think about 103 then..depends what the other forum players are using.
The logical place for the choose signal is just in front of the platforms. The game you shared with us had ordinary signals so it looks like you had given up on the choose signal and reverted to ordinary (your trains all had different platforms to go to so that would have worked reasonably well). Except...the two sets of signals at the entrance to the station are both two way. So some trains are also using the entrance to exit to the station.
That's what caused a gridlock and would have been even worse with a choose signal in two way.
Very smart to mix the p****enger and freight on the same lines. Saves money. Later when volumes rise you can add another line and split out the higher speed p****engers perhaps. But you built a high capacity network so makes sense to use it. Work on the signals and junctions. That's where you can split the trains..putting some under or over the junction to reduce waiting for the junction to clear.
Check at least one of the railway station pieces is freight. Ive often had similar instances only to find I've made my station all p****enger.
The connection by road. Is that all set up with correct station types and vehicles with orders? The connection through to the end destination has to be present before the train will load.
You understand the same way as I do. For industry workers you need only cover one tile of the industry..but for tourist attractions and town halls etc..you need to cover all tiles to obtain maximum p****enger coverage.
The image you refer to is of a part covered tourist attraction. Its making the point that its not all covered by the bus stop...ie of how not to do it...(of bad play) Still... 50% of those p****engers is better than none.
Thanks Frank for posting a repaired link to the save.
Anime...Electrics in Cornwall ? Ive downloaded the save and that was my first thought.
Hmm...so your game is working technically. No bugs or glitches. But its got a few things that can be done better.
- More signals. Too often following trains have to wait for long blocks of track to be free and that means those waiting trains delay others especially around junctions.
- The crocodile is not the most efficient loco now for the bulk freight. Theres a cheaper electric.
- For faster freight like automobiles the croc is too slow and will incur speed penalties. Try a faster loc. The American looking diesel seems ok provided not overloaded/double headed.
- P****engers. Same again. You need the faster version. So you earn speed bonus rather than incur speed penalties.
- The airport at Truro: Taxi way should join runway along a side..not end on. I'm not sure any plane available will make a profit so best keep numbers of planes low. I scrapped the oldest plane (too slow) without replacement.
- Rather than town buses on a loop you might want to have routes that go to the station more often. Thats where most p****engers need to go
- Bridges? That would be next on my agenda. Build cross overs to avoid trains blocking junctions so often.
- Choose signal at the auto plant. Allow trains to go into any platform rather than specific ones.
Here's a screen shot of profits and top earners after a few months and that choose signal I mentioned.
Could a moderator move this entire post into the arena area where saved games like this are most welcome.
I suspect your not the only one to have done this. In fact I know you are not..cos I have done this accidentally a few times as well.
Not only did waiting p****engers disappear at my hub...but they also disappeared from all vehicles in the line (couple of hundred sailing ships) and at the omitted stop. Thousands of p****engers lost just like you. I reloaded an earlier save in a really bad case.
As it stands it could be used as a deliberate ploy if going all out for growth. By making p****engers disappear you create room for new p****engers to travel and thus help growth.
I can live with the immediate disappearance.
An alternative enhancement perhaps would be game pause and warning message requesting confirmation "Cargos between a<>b about to be lost due to no route. Please 'confirm' or fix then hit 'recheck' This is your only warning" If the recheck doesn't find a route then cargo is lost. Not sure how you would deal with multiple connections being lost at the same time. Just a thought..not a show stopper to my mind.
I'm a lot surprised that penalties occur for all convoys slower than the bonus speed level. I had expected a range of acceptable speeds which paid base amount, and that penalties only kicked in when something was really slow, way below the speed bonus level.
This means there is a very fine line between earning a bonus and incurring a penalty?
To double check, keeping it simple for me, and limiting to simutrans standard...can you confirm this as an example
Road speed bonus point is 30kp/h, - horse and cart at 8 kp/h - a penalty (22kp/h below base speed. )Obsolete doesn't matter - old bus at 29 kp/h - a penalty (1 kp/h below base speed) - last years bus 35 kp/h - a bonus (5 kp/h above base speed - new speedy bus 55k p/h - a bonus. (25 kp/h above base speed) Is the speed adjustment, either penalty or bonus, the same for each example? The adjustment is the same no matter how much faster or slower the vehicle is?
There are few references to a speed penalty and no response to a question previously asked.
I kept an open mind on whether they existed or not until I played in the June challenge..Ragoland. There I used an obsolete sailing ship to complete a p****enger route. Its speed was slow, well below the speed bonus level. Its income was low, so low that its journeys were unprofitable despite being fully loaded.
I would appreciate more detail on speed penalties and how progressive they are. Presumably some speeds below bonus level earn 100% of base price..but below a certain point the % starts to fall. Is it just speed or does the 'obsolete' status of a vehicle affect income? Thanks
Ive not seen a vehicle go faster than its top speed...the only way I know is to watch its vehicle info window. HOw was you able to see the faster speed?
There was no slope involved. The river is flat.
Ive since had another occurrance. Around 45 kp/h this time for the same type of ship (top speed 35 kp/h)
Faster vehicles can complete journeys quicker thus can earn more by making more journeys.
Not having a speed penalty means old vehicles remain viable for longer. Generally their lower speed and power will over time confine them to unimportant branch lines. Thus I have always a wider choice of viable vehicles.
In this game there appears to be no bonus for speed. I say this as the % is 0% in all cases.
Is that correct? There is no speed bonus?
If there is no speed bonus...is there any speed penalty? For the moment this slow and obsolete Alder [cheap to run] is earning reasonable profits. Will that continue as long as the speed bonus/penalty is 0% ?
Vehicles certainly go faster down slopes. Whilst I've used canals with slopes there are none in this save which could explain the speed record.
I think a slope cannot make a vehicle go faster than its top speed.
In a number of games of this type Ive seen speed records caused when vehicles that have waited for cargo suddenly start off at top speed. But again..that didn't seem to be the case here. The speed record was set somewhere flat and along the route..not at start or end. Mystery.
I can see bus stops on many streets. The stop "! Central Paraso" for instance has a big coverage. Capacity 15,840 and over 12,000 p****engers waiting.
