[Bug v4.4] Convoy Name in Red

Topic: [Bug v4.4] Convoy Name in Red (Read 8553 times) previous topic - next topic

[Bug v4.4] Convoy Name in Red

June 28, 2009, 10:42:22 pm

If a vehicle has negative revenue, its name will be red in colour. I suppose this is not the intended behaviour?

Edit : Topic Title Modified

Re: [Bug v4.4] Vehicle Name in Red

Reply #1 – June 28, 2009, 10:50:57 pm

It is intended behaviour, actually: Bernd Gabriel added it a week or two ago :-)

Re: [Bug v4.4] Convoy Name in Red

Reply #2 – June 28, 2009, 11:04:43 pm

I see.

But isn't it enough to have a red figure for revenue?

Re: [Bug v4.4] Vehicle Name in Red

Reply #3 – June 28, 2009, 11:11:02 pm

It seems not... The convoy name also turns blue if there are obsolete vehicles.

Re: [Bug v4.4] Convoy Name in Red

Reply #4 – June 29, 2009, 12:24:01 am

IMHO it is redundant. Simutrans Standard doesn't change vehicle name to red when revenue is negative. The case of obsolete vehicles is different : there is no separate data in the convoy info window to designate such, so vehicle name is changed to blue to reflect this.

Besides, what if both revenue is negative and there are obsolete vehicles? Purple??

Re: [Bug v4.4] Vehicle Name in Red

Reply #5 – June 29, 2009, 12:24:49 am

I'd ****ume red would take precedence over blue.

Re: [Bug v4.4] Convoy Name in Red

Reply #6 – June 29, 2009, 12:31:41 am

You are right, Isaac

Purple is just a joke.

Most probably it is either red precedes blue or the reverse.

What I want to point out is, if red really precedes blue, then the fact that there are obsolete vehicles will be hidden. If the revenue figure already turns red when negative, I don't see any reason for doing it again on convoy name.

Re: [Bug v4.4] Convoy Name in Red

Reply #7 – June 29, 2009, 07:30:25 am

No, purple is for when the vehicle is overcrowded...

Re: [Bug v4.4] Convoy Name in Red

Reply #8 – June 29, 2009, 11:22:04 am

Quote from: jamespetts – on June 29, 2009, 07:30:25 am

No, purple is for when the vehicle is overcrowded...

I see. Then what if all 3 conditions -- negative revenue, obsolete vehicles & overcrowded vehicles -- are all satisfied? Surely at least one of the messages will be lost, as the convoy name can only be displayed with a single color.

As you already have 2 other conditions (obsolete vehicles & overcrowded vehicles) competing for the use of convoy name colour for designation, I think it is not desirable to turn convoy name red when revenue is negative. A red figure for negative revenue is more than sufficient.

Besides, probably you need some other method to display the various statuses, instead of having them all competing for the same attribute -- colour of convoy name.

Re: [Bug v4.4] Convoy Name in Red

Reply #9 – June 29, 2009, 04:33:29 pm

What to do with multiple statuses is a somewhat tricky question: the same issue occurs in Simutrans-Standard for vehicles in the line management window (where blue and red compete). Do you recommend that blue and purple but not red be used in the convoy name? Or that different bits of text change colour with different conditions in the convoy information window, preventing any clashes at all? If so, I should be interested in your suggestions as to which text should be ****igned to which colours...

Re: [Bug v4.4] Convoy Name in Red

Reply #10 – June 29, 2009, 04:46:38 pm

My idea:

Color the name of the convoi if something is wrong:
* red for negative revenue
* blue for obsolete
* purple for overcrowded
* another color (bold and red, uppercase it?, ...) if multiple things are wrong

When you go to the convoi details it should sum up what is wrong:

* Convoi is obsolete (this should be printed in blue)
* Convoi has a negative revenue (red) (maybe we can just leave this and print the revenue in red as we do now)
* Convoi is overcrowded (purple)

(The texts are coloured so that people can "learn" what the colors of the convoi mean)

Just my 2 cents

Re: [Bug v4.4] Convoy Name in Red

Reply #11 – June 29, 2009, 05:03:28 pm

Nathan,

bold and uppercase are a bit tricky to program in Simutrans. The easiest thing might be to relegate red to just the revenue figure, and use blue/purple on the convoy name, with purple taking precedence over blue as the more immediate and pressing issue. Knowing that a convoy has obsolete vehicles is relatively low priority.

Re: [Bug v4.4] Convoy Name in Red

Reply #12 – June 29, 2009, 05:13:36 pm

Still it may be good to list all problems in the convoi window

two reason for that
* Users can learn what the color means (as pointed out earlier)
* Users can see all problems (if I see that my line is overcrowded I buy new vehicles or something, when I see my line is overcrowded + obsolete I replace the vehicles with newer and bigger ones) (with the example not always true, but you get the point)

Re: [Bug v4.4] Convoy Name in Red

Reply #13 – June 29, 2009, 05:14:38 pm

I'm not sure of a practical way of doing that, however without making major changes. Remember, there is supposed to be a feature freeze...

Re: [Bug v4.4] Convoy Name in Red

Reply #14 – June 29, 2009, 08:24:43 pm

Quote from: jamespetts – on June 29, 2009, 04:33:29 pm

Do you recommend that blue and purple but not red be used in the convoy name?

Yes, at least red should be dropped from convoy name.

Quote from: jamespetts – on June 29, 2009, 04:33:29 pm

Or that different bits of text change colour with different conditions in the convoy information window, preventing any clashes at all?

Do you mean the text of convoy name, or adding some other texts with different colours?

BTW, is it possible to change the background colour of the convoy name text box? If yes, then maybe you can consider using that for one of the blue/purple status.

Incidentally, a minor thing which doesn't worth a new thread. Please take a look again at the image I attached in the first post. Somehow the Replace button is different from the other buttons. It seems that the other buttons have shadow and a more 3D outlook, which is lacking in the Replace button.

Re: [Bug v4.4] Convoy Name in Red

Reply #15 – June 29, 2009, 09:03:55 pm

There could be also a status bar below the vworld view window, like for factories.

Re: [Bug v4.4] Convoy Name in Red

Reply #16 – June 29, 2009, 10:02:44 pm

My primary intention for coloring the caption was, that I wanted to see the status obsolete and overcrowded in the convoy frame. I found it a bit cumbersome to look at the freight list finding out, if there are more p****engers than seats or searching for the convoy in the line management or vehicle list.

After reading all these statements, I'd like to suggest to show icons for the different statuses like the icons for freight and way types in the station/halt frame. This allows to show a status independently from the others. Instead of icons some colored squares with tooltips for explanations might be more striking.

Re: [Bug v4.4] Convoy Name in Red

Reply #17 – June 29, 2009, 10:21:36 pm

Hmm, an interesting idea. The downside of that, of course, is that somebody has to draw all the icons (for each different skin set)...

Re: [Bug v4.4] Convoy Name in Red

Reply #18 – June 29, 2009, 10:25:11 pm

As long as there are no icons, the colored squares may be shown...

Re: [Bug v4.4] Convoy Name in Red

Reply #19 – June 29, 2009, 10:36:27 pm

Hmm, that sounds complicated to program during a feature freeze...

Re: [Bug v4.4] Convoy Name in Red

Reply #20 – June 29, 2009, 10:59:52 pm

Another approach to multiple status visualization:

Status	\|Color	\|Display
initial/stuck or no route	\|white/orange	\|Status bar
no profit	\|red	\|Revenue text
overcrowded/nothing moved	\|purple/yellow	\|Weight text
obsolete	\|blue	\|Convoy name

Edited: moved 'nothing moved' to 'overcrowded'