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Topic: UNIFYING WIKIES (Read 30381 times) previous topic - next topic

UNIFYING WIKIES

[i couldn't find any documentation...]

Quote from: prissi
I feel like unifying the wikis would be a good idea. If an image is added to the "german" wiki, it would be simple accessible to all other languages. Especially, when bugs or errors or corrections are done.


part of the original post removed, as it did not make sense anymore

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #2 –
thank you :)
i should have said: no documentation i can understand :P
anyway, congrats Frank, the German wiki is really complete. :)

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #3 –
Well, since I had already done a translation into Swedish, I gave the English language page on the German wiki a quick makeover as well: http://simutrans-germany.com/wiki/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=en_BridgeDef  (though I am not really satisfied with "Hangfelder" > "hanging tiles", better suggestions would be appreciated *smile*)

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #4 –
"slopes" ?
  
***** PAK128 Dev Team - semi-retired*****

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #7 –
I quite agree... :::)

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #8 –
Well if anyone cares to copy it to the English wiki, they are more than welcome. Personally I feel much more at home at the German wiki... so that is where I am at...

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #9 –
I feel like unifying the wikis would be a good idea. If an image is added to the "german" wiki, it would be simple accessible to all other languages. Especially, when bugs or errors or corrections are done. Rather the few pages of english wiki should be copied to "german" wiki.

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Frank – on
german wiki

Current German wiki is really useless for us.
If I click Frank's link, I can see only empty page. And I can't easily access to original one.

We can't easily compare each language versions and we can't know current language one is the same as the latest one or not.

So, I never use current German wiki. (Old one was good, by the way.)

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #12 –
I think the problem here is that there exists quite a few "empty" place holder pages on the German wiki. If there is such a page in your language, then you will see that instead of the German (or English) page. Maybe these empty pages should be removed, so that it is clear that there is text to be shown?

But as Frank pointed out, there is always a drop down list in the top right corner that allows you to show a specific language version. IMHO the German wiki is much much easier to i18n:ize than the English one, and it is also much more complete.

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #13 –
Quote from: sanna – on
I think the problem here is that there exists quite a few "empty" place holder pages on the German wiki. If there is such a page in your language, then you will see that instead of the German (or English) page. Maybe these empty pages should be removed, so that it is clear that there is text to be shown? ...

I create this pages for simple beginning for other user

I planed copy the english text to this pages. No english text no copy.
I copy in next days the existing english pages.

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #14 –
Wikies unifying discussion split, moved and renamed. I hope this can help the discussion.  :)

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #16 –
should we merge the two topics?

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #17 –
Well, the topic that IgorTekton directs to has already decided in favour of the English wiki it seems to me, while here we are still discussing where to store the info...

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #19 –
(later I merge both posts)

Is there still any interest in discussing a new wiki system?

Well, there are some things that we need to discuss and decide before we step forward to something more concrete:

- Wiki software
- Wiki domains (where to host and how language-wikis will be organized)
- Method of material sharing
- User registering
- Wiki ports (old material will need to be transferred and adapted).

I can't speak about all these things, but rather few ones:

Wiki software: I'd opt for latest version of WikiMedia (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki) once it's the most used by communities and "online-libraries" (e.g. Scirra/Construct, OpenTTD and Wikipedia) with the advantage that we won't need to learn something strange or too few known.

Wiki domains and ports: I don't know if this is the better, but I would recommend to follow the Wikipedia format: <lang>.wikipedia.org, i.e. <lang>.wikisimutrans.com or <lang>.wiki.simutrans.com. And we could create a temporary domain to work on, and gradually we transfer the material from current wikies to new one.

My 1.5ยข  ;D

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #20 –
Whatever software we choose, I think it is imperative that it is easy to i18n:ize the content of the wiki.

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #21 –
Well, here comes my cent:
I would first think in a couple things:

1) Project. Do the community want a global wiki? ("want" means a little of implication). I'd like to see more people in the community interested :-/ Maybe a devotee poll could help? Just to make some "global consciousness".
2) Leaders. A leader for each language would be needed, to coordinate/supervision/whatever.

Then what Igor says. A known and easy software, and such things. The only thing I would suggest is that I prefer the own mediawiki translation system rather than creating separate pages/databases; that should help to keep similar format/content in all languages.

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #22 –
Deficiencies which now exist in MediaWiki

- no linking of all wikis in all language wiki ( existing 1 - 2 years )
* link list in Tikiwiki

- for each wiki an account is needed ( multi language writing difficult )

- navigation in Simutrans MediaWikis is bad, knows that from someone

- Acceptance and awareness is poor
Why tutorials are written so in the forum or elsewhere?

TikiWiki offers

- 2 navigations ( structur top on page, categories bottom of page )

- one account for all languages

- simple change between the languages of any linked site ( dropdown field right top )

- Developer part prepared for 21 languages; it only needs to be written, which also goes anonymous

- Formatting can be copied in the pages of other languages

And you must no translating existing pages. You can write your own pages. These should then be linked only thematically with the other languages.

The only disadvantage is the direct upload of images, since they are all stored in a directory. This, however well organized with the image gallery.

german help in Simutrans TikiWiki
These pages can also be translated or new write.

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #23 –
The past shows, this cannot be decided by discussion. Someone must step in, set up a wiki and maintain it properly, also fill it with content either himself or by motivating others to do so.

This someone has been Frank, at least in regard to german language content. We need a similar strong lead if we want a unified Wiki of whatever technology. Frank will not give up his Wiki, so much is certain. Who wants to step in and compete with him?

I see no real way to establish any other Wiki besides Frank's - not because I think Frank's choice of software was best, but because he created a m**** of content that now cannot be neglected so easily anymore.

I think this is a political/social issue rather than a technological.

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #25 –
I didn't mean to say if the choice was good or bad. I wanted to say that the problem is independent of the choice of software. It rather lays in the need of having a very determined person behind the project.

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #26 –
I completely agree with Hajo.

IMHO building a whole new site would end in a neverending project; it's a pity, but I think it's true.

It would be easy to take profit of the existing structure and contents (tons of contents!!) of the tikiwiki, which is great and very complete (despite I personally find it too difficult and unclear for newbies).

About the software, I think both are good enough. Probably Frank is comparing both wiki's current settings, but IIRC both can be configured to provide all advantages that Frank says. The tip is that the TikiWiki is already configured and filled with content, and the MediaWiki isn't.

Edit:
Quote from: Hajo – on
It rather lays in the need of having a very determined person behind the project.
What a truth...

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #27 –
For add-on creators, the german wiki is miles better - the only problem is the limited english translations / my limited grasp of german (choose whichever you feel is more appropriate ;)).  It seems a more complete reference to the game in general and is more up to date, so it would seem less work to me to translate / mimic the german wiki in english rather than re-vamp the english one. 

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #28 –
Hajo nailed it :) I could not find better words or more succinct way to explain all the aspects.

My projects... Tools for messing with Simutrans graphics. Graphic archive - templates and some other stuff for painters. Development logs for most recent information on what is going on. And of course pak128!
 

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #29 –
i used myself the German wiki a bit. i wish it could be translated in English.
Once this is done, new content could be added in either language and then translated into the other one.
the current English wiki is completely useless for me (i don't know if it is for players, i mostly use it as a reference for dats and specific rules).

Another issue is its domain, instead, as the unified wiki should be wiki.simutrans.com

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #30 –
Quote from: fabio – on
i wish it could be translated in English.
At least the pak/dat-reference section can be translated!

There is a scroll-down box at the top right. Select your language there. If the page in your language is empty, copy the content of the German or English page and translate. You can edit without login. There is just a captcha to protect from spam.

There are fully translated English pages. Other 'English' pages are mix German/English, a few are simply copied and pure German.

If someone needs help with German, then please ask here (or me). Here are a lot of German people around!
Parsley, sage, rosemary, and maggikraut.

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #31 –
I think fabio's plea was more "please someone translate them" rather than "I wish it was technically possible to translate them" *smile* Perhaps some of the "lot of German people" could lend a hand?

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #32 –
Quote from: sanna – on
I think fabio's plea was more "please someone translate them" rather than "I wish it was technically possible to translate them" *smile* Perhaps some of the "lot of German people" could lend a hand?

Precisely! :::)

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #33 –
Quote from: sanna – on
Perhaps some of the "lot of German people" could lend a hand?
Sorry, but saying
Quote
please translate everything for me
is very different to saying
Quote
please help with translating page X, I just started to translate but could not figure out what term Y really means.
And yes, you can start as non-German speaker to translate the dat-reference pages. All the dat-variable names are English, which should help.
Parsley, sage, rosemary, and maggikraut.

Re: UNIFYING WIKIES

Reply #34 –
Most of the content can be translated using an online translator as help and some common sense to use that. There is also the irc chat where usually you can find german users which can help you with particular/difficult cases. As Dwachs suggests there you can also ask for help by other means (p.m., mail, ...).

So, there are tools. Problems are freetime and aiming to do it.