Long Blocks and Other Things That Puzzle Me December 11, 2009, 06:29:50 am I've been trying to wrap my head around a few gameplay mechanics since I started playing, but for some reason there are two things I just can't answer, no matter how much searching I do.The first is about railway signals. I THINK I'm figuring out how the basics work for one-ways and preventing jams. Presignals I don't entirely understand, but I've still been able to use them in situations like this: l l P--P + P-- This is the pattern for an innercity tram P I designed that can hold 4 street cars on a path that l always turns to the right at the intersection. lAgain, I'm not entirely sure how they work, just that they do in that situation. I suppose I've been treating them as signals that open up one signal ahead of them and reserve that section of track, as in the diagram above. More confusing, though, is the long block signal. I've searched everywhere for that one and the only explanation that got close to helping me figure it out was mostly in French. I know that it has something to do with skipping stations, but my experiments with them have only ended in stuck trains. Similarly I don't quite get "end station selection" signals, though I have been able to use the normal station selection signals rather effectively. What I think would be most helpful is if someone could direct me to a save file that has good effective use of the various signals in the game, since I get the impression I'm not going to figure this out for good without a little visual aid. It wouldn't matter what pak it was in as long as it was a pak that has the standard selection of signals, but I tend to be most comfortable in 128 standard.The other concept that I've been able to find info on but not enough to figure out is the correlation of weight, power, friction, and gears. Particularly the gears I find confusing. Weight and power... well, I usually just go with the theory that less weight and more power means better acceleration. Friction I know has something to do with speed maintaining on turns, but I don't know if a higher "friction rating" means better speed or worse speed. Gears have the same problem for me. Between a 0.8 : 1 gear and a 1.3 : 1 gear, I simply don't get which one is better. Obviously I haven't had much experience with engines in life to this point As such, I have trouble understanding the wiki description of the gear: "The gear is a factor applied to the nominal power of a powered vehicle (same as its real-world power, if the vehicle has been taken from there), to get the effective power that is used in the game (to achieve a realistic behaviour)."Obviously this isn't a HUGE game-stopping problem, but the curiosity has been killing me.And as long as I've taken the time to bug this board, I might as well confirm one other thing. Speed bonus profit from delivery (in standard, not experimental; I know there's a difference with this issue) is based on the maximum speed of a convoy, as a whole, dependent on the speed bonus percentage, correct? As in, a train convoy that has a max speed (the green bar in its info screen) of 120 Km/h will make more per delivery than one that goes 90 Km/h on a 60 Km/h limiting track? Even if it never ever reaches 120? That's what I heard, but it sounded a little strange, so I wanted to make sure I was thinking the right thing. And lastly, when calculating distance traveled, does the game ****ign prices by the distance between the pick up and drop off point in a direct, straight line, or is it the actual distance traveled by the vehicle (on a windy road for example).So, in summary, my list of silly issues:1) Explaining signals, expecially long blocks2) Explaining gears, power, and the effect those issues have on acceleration3) If vehicle max speed or actual travel time is the deciding factor in speed bonuses and how distance is calculatedThanks in advance for any help you can provide, and thanks to the community for creating my new addiction!P.S. Almost forgot! I'm playing mostly Pak 128 on Simutrans 102.2 Standard, but most of these issues extend to other paks. Quote Selected Last Edit: December 11, 2009, 06:59:13 am by EvanBGood
Re: Long Blocks and Other Things That Puzzle Me Reply #1 – December 11, 2009, 07:00:13 am If you do better in German than in French, there is an ok (illustrated) overview of signals at the German wiki (http://simutrans-germany.com/wiki/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=de_Eisenbahnsignale2&bl=y). Check it out and come back with additional questions....The "end station selection" (which in my mind should be better named "exclude from station selection" works together with the platform choose signal; that is if you place a platform choose signal before the track divides into several into a multiplatform station, then those trains that have a stop at that station (and only those... that bit me for a while.... *smile*) chooses the first available track to stop at that station. If there is a track that you want to not be chosen by such a train (perhaps it is a shorter platform that cannot accomodate all stopping trains) then you place a "end station selection" signal on that track - then only trains that explicitly has that platform in their schedule may use it, just as if there was no platform choose signal at all.In Simutrans Standard the theoretical max speed of the convoi is the determining factor for speed bonuses. Quote Selected
Re: Long Blocks and Other Things That Puzzle Me Reply #2 – December 11, 2009, 09:21:51 am Thanks for answering me so fast!I think I get the end station selection now (though I'm not too sure how I'll end up using it). And I think that you confirmed what I heard about the max speed question.As for the long blocks, I found a situation that I used one practically in, but again, I'm not sure why it worked. Those diagrams were helpful, but unfortunately I don't speak any German (I recognized "achtung"!). If you could tell me what I'm looking at when I look at the picture next to "neu ab Version 0.99.08", I think that would help. As for my own design, I did this (S= station N= Normal signal L= long block T= 3-way intersection):S-----S--T-N---- LThis allowed a train to go from the bottom, left to the two stations, then back towards the right past the signal and beyond, while the next train would wait at the long block until they had crossed the normal signal. If I'm understanding this correctly, this is because the long block is ignoring everything between it and the next regular signal. I'm just thinking out loud here while I look at that picture and... would I be right in ****uming that the bottom track is going left, and the top track is going right, but they're both able to use the three stations one at a time? That does make a little more sense to me now...Oh, and while I'm thinking about it (the link you gave me gave me plenty to study) one-ways and rail blocks... those are just cheaper versions of normal single signals, correct? Or do they just keep trains going one way without stopping trains?... I may be answering my own questions here Thanks again for your help! I learn something new every day with Simutrans. Quote Selected
Re: Long Blocks and Other Things That Puzzle Me Reply #3 – December 11, 2009, 10:31:55 am About the "one way signal" in pak128...Quote from: EvanBGood – on December 11, 2009, 09:21:51 amOr do they just keep trains going one way without stopping trains?... I may be answering my own questions here You already got that figured out indeed. Unfortunately the name is incorrect and a little misleading, since this is only a sign, not a signal at all. And that's why it doesn't stop any trains, but instead only limits the allowed direction trains may use.-----LongBlock signals...In short, they are only needed when you use multiple trains on a stretch of single track (both ways) with more than one station on the single track part.Imagine this layout:====>----A----B----C----<====Without longblock signals it can happen that trains enter the single track section from both sides simultaneously, since they only reserve their path up to their next stop (A or C, depending from where they come). This will lead into a deadlock since only one train will be able to reserve its path to B and then everything's stuck. The train now at B cannot get to the next station since another train is already there, and of course that other train also cannot advance towards B. This is caused by the stations' (waypoints') integrated signals. Longblock signals however (need to be placed on the exit of the double tracks to the single track here) will reserve the whole way up to a manually placed signal, ignoring the stations behaviour. So that only one train can enter the single track section and others will wait until the train inside p****es a normal signal on its way out (to be placed at the beginning of the double track section). Quote Selected
Re: Long Blocks and Other Things That Puzzle Me Reply #4 – December 12, 2009, 05:58:19 pm Well, I have given translating the German wiki page into English a go, see http://simutrans-germany.com/wiki/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=en_RailwaySignals Please note that it is not a word-for-word translation, more of a re-creation of the salient points into English. Furthermore, the German page is written from the perspective of "what was new from version 89.02" while I have written from the perspective of "what is there in version 102.2".Still, German is not my mother tongue (and I have not been playing Simutrans for all that long either...) so I would very much appreciate it if someone whose native tongue is German would give the page a quick look over... Or for that matter if someone who feels their grasp of railway signalling in Simutrans is perfect (or pretty close to perfect *smile*) would check if I have made any actual errors of facts... Quote Selected
Re: Long Blocks and Other Things That Puzzle Me Reply #5 – December 12, 2009, 08:58:54 pm I do not know, why there is still so much written about choosing too short platforms. Trains should not choose a too short plattform. Those are excluded from route search since a long time. Quote Selected
Re: Long Blocks and Other Things That Puzzle Me Reply #6 – December 12, 2009, 09:04:03 pm Quote from: prissi – on December 12, 2009, 08:58:54 pmI do not know, why there is still so much written about choosing too short platforms. Trains should not choose a too short plattform. Those are excluded from route search since a long time.Well, this is yet another fact about signals that is totally new to me. I will modify the page accordingly.EDIT: Seems someone beat me to it. *smile* Quote Selected Last Edit: December 12, 2009, 09:08:25 pm by sanna
Re: Long Blocks and Other Things That Puzzle Me Reply #7 – December 12, 2009, 09:06:11 pm I did this before Quote Selected
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