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Topic: Transition from small to medium cities... (Read 8910 times) previous topic - next topic

Transition from small to medium cities...

Okay, recently I've been trying to start caring about profits... whereas before I didn't care about money. I figure at some point I'll try to start playing Simutrans as it's intended... hehe.

One big thing: I often have a lot of cities that can be covered by a single bus stop, and this is fine - making a big network of such stops is fine.

But what do you do when a city starts to be big enough to be covered by 2-3 stops (although, not full stops - just a few buildings)?

Running a bus on 2-3 close stops is definitely not profitable.

Do you just eat those costs? Or are there some tricks?

Re: Transition from small to medium cities...

Reply #1 –
Quote from: Isaac.Eiland-Hall – on
One big thing: I often have a lot of cities that can be covered by a single bus stop, and this is fine - making a big network of such stops is fine.

How big are your cities? 4 x 4 tiles?

Quote from: Isaac.Eiland-Hall – on
Do you just eat those costs?

*BURP* ... o sorry.

Quote from: Isaac.Eiland-Hall – on
Or are there some tricks?

Nah.... just so simple.

First, I create a ring-like urban bus line covering whole urban area (blue line), directly connected to the railway station (yellow box), and I place a stop in each building block. Plus, I create one special line for factories (red line) that are within municipality border (that's why I'd like to view municipality borders D:), and other special line (green) for touristic attractions of municipality.



After the city has grown up, I remove the ring-like bus line and create some branch-like bus lines, each line has an identity, something like UrbanBus-CityName-Line01; buses go to the end and go back to the city terminal. Also, I create a special bus line (pink) for each touristic attraction within urban area (stadium, markets, cathedrals etc).



If the city becomes a metropolis, I'd prefer to divide up the city into districts, each district could have a sub-terminal where the bus lines are connected. Theses sub-terminals would be interconnected forming a closed back-bone which is directly connected to main city terminal... and...

Hey! Why are you all sleeping?

(you wouldn't want me to translate the images, would you?)

EDIT: wrong grammar was wrong D:<

Re: Transition from small to medium cities...

Reply #2 –
That's an awesome reply and set of graphics. :D  I've used different styles, but as a complete system.... I think I'll play with that idea. :D

But my question is what you do before the first stage you replied with.

Of course, it depends on what settings you set for your cities - but I like to use 500-800 or so, typically.. so I usually get most of my cities with the city hall and perhaps 5-10 buildings. Usually I can cover 80-90% of the buildings with a single bus stop.

When the city is large enough for 2-3 bus stops, running a bus is not cost-effective - it loses money. In the larger scheme of things, this is probably fine - the idea is that the large network will make up for this... Another thought I had would be to make one of the new bus stops a terminal (if not an actual terminal station, as some paks don't have them; at least a bus stop on a one-tile long street), and have the bus wait for something like 50% full (can't do 100% because the other station might have a higher p****enger rate) to try and slow things down... but this is still a pain. hehe.

So, by the "transition" state of a city, I mean one that needs more than one stop, but it's large enough to support a single circular bus on its own. :)

But again, thank you for your reply - you've given me some ideas to play with already. :D

Re: Transition from small to medium cities...

Reply #3 –
I often start with very small cities with only one rail station each; obviously the city is just 4 x 4 tiles large. If the city becomes a 4 x 6 or 6 x 8 tiles large, I create a "horse" or mini-bus line with 1 or 2 stops connecting the farthest building block to the rail station. If it keeps growing, I do as I posted above.

Quote from: Isaac.Eiland-Hall – on
But again, thank you for your reply - you've given me some ideas to play with already. :D

You're welcome, besides, what are the architects for?  :P

Re: Transition from small to medium cities...

Reply #4 –
Iterestingly, this is exactly the way the bus KI does, but since it suck at railways with cities, it just build this with busses.

But for small cities, I usually have a bus in one dead end for 2-3 stops waiting for 50% load (2nd stop in schedule, first is transfer, so it first moves further on if people to be distributed) and 1/4 months. Works fine until city can expanded further.

Re: Transition from small to medium cities...

Reply #5 –
I work in the same way as Igor (apart from seperate buslines to city attractions...).

My new cities start at 800. I usually build a transfer station outside the city with two busstops. In one the p****engers arrive and leave from the regional lines (except of course when this is a train connection), in the other I have a small bus (20 p****engers) waiting for 100% load or 1/32 of a month serving the city stops. If you want mail services you need a third stop with a mail van waiting for the same load and time.

The station outside the city guarantees an undisrupted growing of the city for a while, not hampered by full city stops.
Bob Marley: No woman, no cry

Programmer: No user, no bugs


Re: Transition from small to medium cities...

Reply #6 –
[In pak128] I initially connect cities with expectation of losses. My tactic for losing as much as possible is building bus lines spanning multiple cities and eventually stopping twice or more times in the same city. The line must also connect some tourist attraction. Then I keep adding buses as needed until it falls apart, at which point it's time to separate cities and intercity.

My projects... Tools for messing with Simutrans graphics. Graphic archive - templates and some other stuff for painters. Development logs for most recent information on what is going on. And of course pak128!

Re: Transition from small to medium cities...

Reply #7 –
This is a very interesting discussion. Although it's one that doesn't really affect me because I like to 'fast' grow my cities. They start with a minimum of 2000 but I grow them to 16000 as I build rail stations and tram stations.

I find that if I put a train track through the centre of a city, (I like to run them close to the Townhall) the city wont grow past the track, it will only grow on the side where there already houses/buildings. This means that I have to build the city  up to say 5000 then destroy all the houses/buildings on a double track right through the centre. I usually put a road either side the track so quite often this means destroying four lots of houses/buildings. Then it will continue to grow either side of the track.

 I have started putting more rail stations underground so that I don't have to destroy any of the city. I have also just started increasing my cities without laying roads myself, this gives a nice city centre with multiple skyscrapers. whereas when I built all the road systems myself I got m****ive urban sprawl. and the cities looked pretty bland

I have between 25 to 40 tram stops scattered throughout each city, depending on the urban sprawl, and they all make money. I only use buses to ferry p****engers to and from factories/tourist attractions. They also make money.

Like Isaac, I'm not really interested in the money, it becomes meaningless when it reaches five billion. but I like to have around 50 cities all thriving then try and connect industries around them, a job that has become easier with the new underground system.

Sometimes I will build a rail/bus/tram terminal/airport between four or five cities with one interconnecting tram/bus/train. This enables the aiplanes to pick up multiple p****engers without getting near a city.
I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it

Thought for the day

 When you are up to your backside in alligators, it is difficult to remind yourself that your initial objective was to drain the swamp.

Re: Transition from small to medium cities...

Reply #8 –
Quote
I find that if I put a train track through the centre of a city, (I like to run them close to the Townhall) the city wont grow past the track, it will only grow on the side where there already houses/buildings. This means that I have to build the city  up to say 5000 then destroy all the houses/buildings on a double track right through the centre. I usually put a road either side the track so quite often this means destroying four lots of houses/buildings. Then it will continue to grow either side of the track.

Another option to solve this problem is to switch to public player and build a house and a road on the other side of the track. This will stretch the city limits over the track. Now the city will grow again on that side of the track.
Bob Marley: No woman, no cry

Programmer: No user, no bugs


Re: Transition from small to medium cities...

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Combuijs – on
Another option to solve this problem is to switch to public player and build a house and a road on the other side of the track. This will stretch the city limits over the track. Now the city will grow again on that side of the track.

I never thought of that, 8) I'll give it a go on my next city. I think I should only have to build a house though as I will already have roads, I'll try it and see.
I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it

Thought for the day

 When you are up to your backside in alligators, it is difficult to remind yourself that your initial objective was to drain the swamp.