Simutrans vs. OpenTTD July 15, 2009, 07:58:30 am Hi all,I just discovered Simutrans, but I have not tried it yet. I am very familiar with OpenTTD (and a translator of it), so my first thought is naturally to compare it to OpenTTD.I suppose all of you in here of course think Simutrans is the better of the two? Could someone tell me some pros and cons of the games?In my opinion, OpenTTD looks much better, but that is because it uses the original TTD graphics. Simutrans seems to come with its own graphics which is of course an advantage, license-wise. Would you say Simutrans is more or less complete than OpenTTD?Thomas Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #1 – July 15, 2009, 08:17:54 am In my case. It's not a hard decission. I choose Simutrans with no doubt. OTTD graphics seem weird to me, although it has some cool things like the possibility of building insame bridge networks. Here you have some other references:simutrans or open transport tycoon? discussion from the archive.Independent comparison from a OTTD player that includes several Transport Simulation Games like OTTD, Simutrans, FreeTrain, FreeRails 2,etc.. Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #2 – July 15, 2009, 08:21:54 am A random list of difference that come to my mindin simutrans, everything (goods, p****engers) has a destinationin simutrans you can build arbitrary underground structures, with some effort you can do some things also over ground (elevated structures)in simutrans you can play graphic sets of different sizesin simutrans trains etc always find a route to their target if one existsThe most notable difference (besides GUI design) for a TTD-player is track laying: in difference to TTD, you do not need to build every possible connection on one tile by hand. Also close diagonal tracks as in TTD are not possible in Simutrans. And no multiplayer feature in Simutrans. Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #3 – July 15, 2009, 10:40:37 am My 2c:1) Destinations for cargo -> Simutrans forces you (far more) to comply with demand, not move things at your will2) Precalculated vehicle routing and fixed route coordinates (as opposed to on the fly in ttd) -> very different station-building-fu.3) Different approach to construction of ways -> initial frustration with that. Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #4 – July 15, 2009, 10:54:10 am simutrans can OpenTTD/OpenGfx graficsdemo from pak.ttd sorry, posting is german Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #5 – July 20, 2009, 06:56:44 am Quote from: ThomasA – on July 15, 2009, 07:58:30 amHi all,I just discovered Simutrans, but I have not tried it yet. I am very familiar with OpenTTD (and a translator of it), so my first thought is naturally to compare it to OpenTTD.I suppose all of you in here of course think Simutrans is the better of the two? Could someone tell me some pros and cons of the games?In my opinion, OpenTTD looks much better, but that is because it uses the original TTD graphics. Simutrans seems to come with its own graphics which is of course an advantage, license-wise. Would you say Simutrans is more or less complete than OpenTTD?ThomasHi there, last night I finished writing a page on exactly this topic. OpenTTD vs Simutrans | The Linux Transport Simulation Showdown. Perhaps that will aid your decision - it has screenshots of both, and the pro's and cons from someone who has spent reasonable time playing each. I have actually come from playing OpenTTD to discovering Simutrans, and for the reasons stated in the page, Simutrans comes off better.Cheers,Danny Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #6 – July 20, 2009, 07:43:23 am Quote from: dannystaple – on July 20, 2009, 06:56:44 amI have actually come from playing OpenTTD to discovering Simutrans, and for the reasons stated in the page, Simutrans comes off better... which is quite surprising (and encouraging ).As to the crashes you mention: please check a newer nightly. Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #7 – July 20, 2009, 08:51:30 am Thanks for all your input. I downloaded Simutrans to give it a try. I only tried it a few minutes so far. My first impressions are:The user interface surprised and frustrated me a little, but that's probably just because I am used to OpenTTDIt's awfully silentThe graphics seem to have very few colours - IMO it doesn't look goodSome of the more technical things mentioned sound like Simutrans could be more interesting though, so I will try it some more when I get time for it. I have bot checked out dannystaple's comparison yet...Thomas Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #8 – July 20, 2009, 08:57:48 am Quote from: ThomasA – on July 20, 2009, 08:51:30 amThe graphics seem to have very few colours - IMO it doesn't look goodTechnically, Simutrans allows for about 32000 colors plus a few special colors. If I remember correctly TTD graphics use 256 colors. But these are technical aspects, how many colors are used in the images, and how well they are used depends on the artists who painted the images. I'm not trying to defend Simutrans graphics, juts trying to explain that your impression is not really a limit of the Simutrans graphics engine, but choice of the image creators. Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #9 – July 20, 2009, 11:21:09 am Quote from: Hajo – on July 20, 2009, 08:57:48 amTechnically, Simutrans allows for about 32000 colors plus a few special colors. If I remember correctly TTD graphics use 256 colors. This is also not true anymore: openTTD has a 32bbp renderer, but the "pak" for that is still not complete, so the main pak is still 256 colors (+ non-free)ThomasA maybe you should have a look at the pak128 pakset, I find that one graphically more appealing than pak64 (default simutrans pak). Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #10 – July 20, 2009, 11:32:40 am I find pak96comic to be the best, visually. But... I like bits of *all* of them - honestly. And it's nice to have such different options... Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #11 – July 20, 2009, 11:37:55 am Quote from: Isaac.Eiland-Hall – on July 20, 2009, 11:32:40 amBut... I like bits of *all* of them - honestly. And it's nice to have such different options...Complete agreement. Choice is power is innovation is just the way I like it (tm) Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #12 – July 20, 2009, 02:56:49 pm Quote...It's awfully silent;The graphics seem to have very few colours - IMO it doesn't look good...Which pakset did you use? Some paksets are more colourful than others. Also, I am not familliar with OTTD: what sorts of sounds can one hear in that? Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #13 – July 20, 2009, 06:20:16 pm Quote from: jamespetts – on July 20, 2009, 02:56:49 pmWhich pakset did you use? Some paksets are more colourful than others. Also, I am not familliar with OTTD: what sorts of sounds can one hear in that?The original Transport Tycoon had very nice background sound themes. But they are copyrighted. Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #14 – July 20, 2009, 07:21:07 pm I think that, these days, in terms of music, it is far easier and more preferable for people to listen to their own CDs/MP3s/Oggs/etc. whilst playing the game than have music built into the game. The tradition of built-in music comes, I think, from the days when games were run on single tasking operating systems that could not, for example, play a CD in the background. Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #15 – July 20, 2009, 09:08:58 pm You can still compile Simutrans for DOS using Allegro if I did not break something since last year. Albeit with 64MB main memory large maps will be out of question ... Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #16 – July 20, 2009, 09:17:27 pm Quote from: jamespetts – on July 20, 2009, 07:21:07 pmI think that, these days, in terms of music, it is far easier and more preferable for people to listen to their own CDs/MP3s/Oggs/etc. whilst playing the game than have music built into the game. The tradition of built-in music comes, I think, from the days when games were run on single tasking operating systems that could not, for example, play a CD in the background.I'm not sure if you are right. A event bounded music system like the german game "Verkehrsgigant" it have, when you here sound when the enviroment require this sounds, this is very nice. Like when you next to a football station you here the fans shouting, or when you are next to a cinema ...The problem is there are very less people who could make sounds, and without this people improving Simutrans sound system is useless. Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #17 – July 20, 2009, 09:20:30 pm I am mostly playing with Pak128 myself, but I also grok that pak64 is the most feature full and official pack. I may have to find out a bit more about contributing to the project (yes I found that page already - just got to find time to look at it) - I may be able to look at the sounds.... Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #18 – July 20, 2009, 09:21:08 pm Adding environment sound is easy. I did some sound editing, but with two children and a non-working headphone connector on my PC editing sound is nearly impossible at the moment. Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #19 – July 20, 2009, 09:22:46 pm Danny,would you be interested in contributing to pak128.Britain? Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #20 – July 21, 2009, 06:49:59 am Quote from: jamespetts – on July 20, 2009, 02:56:49 pmWhich pakset did you use? Some paksets are more colourful than others. Also, I am not familliar with OTTD: what sorts of sounds can one hear in that?I am just using the standard pakset that came with the game as I downloaded it. I will check out the other sets too.Apart from the music, which IMO is great, all the vehicles in OTTD (TT) have sounds when they start and stop. Some find it annoying I guess, especially if you are looking at a section of the map with a lot of traffic, but I quite like all those little sounds. Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #21 – July 21, 2009, 07:20:14 am Starting sounds are possible (for ages) in simu, but they aren'T used very often. Most people do only the gaphics for new vehicles and don't think about sounds (me too, no doubt). But after a while these sounds become annoying anyway, so people turn them off. Quote Selected Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 07:37:27 am by mobo
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #22 – July 21, 2009, 12:07:56 pm The problem of them being annoying is one of which I am aware; I strongly suspect that it substantially reduces uptake of this feature. Firstly, the sounds could do with being a little quieter and more subtle, which is a matter for pakset authors. But, secondly, in a busy area, they are played far too often and become extremely annoying by being repetitious. In the most recent version of Simutrans-Experimental, I have addressed this: now, the vehicle starting noises do not play if another vehicle starting noise has played within the last 10-30 seconds (the point within that range is randomised). Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #23 – July 21, 2009, 02:01:04 pm I have taken the sounds conversation to a new thread - http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=2787.msg27822#msg27822 since I am interested in taking that forward. Quote Selected
OpenTTD vs. Simutrans Reply #24 – July 24, 2009, 01:25:59 pm I have found this article. http://www.squidoo.com/linux-transport-simulation-showdown Quote Selected
Re: OpenTTD vs. Simutrans Reply #25 – July 24, 2009, 01:43:30 pm You have just missed this topic: http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=2743.15 Quote Selected
Re: OpenTTD vs. Simutrans Reply #26 – July 24, 2009, 01:46:34 pm Sorry. Please delete this thread. Quote Selected Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 02:56:02 pm by sojo
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #27 – July 24, 2009, 02:08:13 pm Never mind. Merging is better. Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #28 – July 24, 2009, 02:21:10 pm @dannystaple: Your article has become famous!! I've seen it announced at the Linux Game Tome, so congratulations dannystaple! Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #29 – July 24, 2009, 04:10:33 pm One small problem with that- he put it up - it says: submitted by dannystaple. Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #30 – July 25, 2009, 08:51:40 am Well, in that case he already knows he has become famous... Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #31 – September 29, 2009, 05:29:36 am One thing that really make OTTD special is the interface design.Such as original font, color shcemed windows, minimalistic button placement and such.Obviously it was a commercial game originally. It just is well designed.I personally want(and wish) to attract more people from OTTD though.I guess people there are attached deeply to magical atmosphere of TTD.Music, graphic, interface, sound effect and vehicles. They all match perfectly. I admit this, really.But I believe ST will provide more complexity for long time users.And this genre of game has something common with model rairoad hobby.As model railroad is deep as it is also the ST and OTTD.I can tell that this hobby will last long for its multiple properties.Growth, network,financial management, planning, graphics, scenary, creation and sharing.And it is good to see and get to know people who share the same interest. Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #32 – September 29, 2009, 08:46:55 am I have to be honest, I know what colonyan means, but the interface design is as much a millstone as special for TTD too. Consider that the font issue means that it cannot offer a PAK selection screen like Simutrans does - the font is in the graphics files, and they will not use system fonts.I am getting to know some of the limitations well as I look at junction building in both games comparatively - there is a junction database in the OpenTTD wiki that I have been raiding for ideas for Simutrans junctions. I have been building an article on it - so far with only some basics, but I have some neat junctions to write up once I have perfected them. Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #33 – October 02, 2009, 07:10:47 am i've played openTTD for quite a while before switching to simutrans about half a year ago.for me the two most important features available only in one of the games are:path based signals(a bit similar in function to platform choose signals)absolutely great in OTTD, missing in simutrans. they make realistic double, or multiple track layouts possible.destinations for p****engers and cargo:in OTTD i could transport goods arbitrarily over the map. creating rather unrealistic networks, and money generators. cargo with destination is the main reason for me to prefer simutrans. (simutrans experimental takes it even a bit further) Quote Selected
Re: Simutrans vs. OpenTTD Reply #34 – October 07, 2009, 06:45:37 am Let me comment on one of your observations:Quote from: sdog – on October 02, 2009, 07:10:47 ampath based signals(a bit similar in function to platform choose signals)absolutely great in OTTD, missing in simutrans. they make realistic double, or multiple track layouts possible.The difference here is not due to different signal systems, but the way how vehicles calculate their routes: in simutrans vehicles calculate their route before starting at a station and they will not take another route if another vehicle blocks them, in Openttd this is handled differently. This makes overtaking of trains in multiple track layout almost impossible in Simutrans. Quote Selected
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