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Topic: pak128.USA (Read 174477 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #140 –
I suggest uploading what you have to http://files.[ simutrans [dot] us (site down, do not visit) ]/ - that's what it's there for. :)

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #141 –
Hallo dear Simutransmembers
i Have be upload my 086105 Simutransfolder at http://files.[ simutrans [dot] us (site down, do not visit) ] .
Here it´s the Link to the zipfile.
http://files.[ simutrans [dot] us (site down, do not visit) ]/files/get/0SuZ3Hgg-Y/086105-simutransfolder-from-greenling.zip
The info for the Operatingsystem be standing in important please read.
Please give me m****age the link not work!
Sorry my English get rusty!

Greenling
Opening hours 20:00 - 23:00
(In Night from friday on saturday and saturday on sunday it possibly that i be keep longer in Forum.)
I am The ****istant from Pakfilearcheologist!
Working on a big Problem!

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #142 –
@Greenling:  It seems you have put a European car set in your pak128_usa (looks like Raven's car set).  To my knowledge, American trains have never had brakeman's cabins (while wikipedia seems to suggest its use in the US, I have yet to see a photograph of such a thing in North America).  Typical American trains would have brakemen in the locomotive and in the caboose at the rear; when braking was needed, the brakemen would climb on top of the train from their respective locations and make their way towards the middle of the train, applying brakes on the way.  Also, the colorful European tank cars seem out of place  (They should generally be black or white).

I will wait to see what wlindley comes up with.  86.10.5 is a very old version of Simutrans, I would prefer something a bit more current :)

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #143 –
Lmallet
I hate looking in my 128_us_set.zip and i Find some Europan vehicles,
those Vehicles hat Raven puting in this Pakset that he a Playabale Pakset.
This paksetzip it from raven.
Raven can This Pakset not more rebuild he loss the engineerdata throu a
Harddiskcrash.
Then you want to make new Generation form Pak128.usa then Must
you useing some Pakfiles out the Age from 086105 Simutrans.
Opening hours 20:00 - 23:00
(In Night from friday on saturday and saturday on sunday it possibly that i be keep longer in Forum.)
I am The ****istant from Pakfilearcheologist!
Working on a big Problem!

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #144 –
The above is quite confused.

Without a pakset de-compiler, these old .pak's are useless to build a new pak128.USA ... even if we had a de-compiler, the would would only be beginning.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #145 –
Quote from: wlindley – on
The above is quite confused.
You can say that again :)  I think we are really seeing two threads here.

Quote from: wlindley – on
Without a pakset de-compiler, these old .pak's are useless to build a new pak128.USA ... even if we had a de-compiler, the would would only be beginning.

I have seen rumours that such a decompiler exists, and is held in a secret tower somewhere.  I also seem to recall that Raven has given permission to use his objects, and since most of the source files have been lost, there might be a legitimate reason to get a hold of the decompiler here.  (all of this needs to be confirmed).  And yes, having used Raven's addons before, they would need to be seriously re-balanced before finding a home in a proper pak128.USA.

Now, there is a drawing style difference between Raven and standard pak128, which also has a few American objects (E and F units).  Maybe decompiling is not the route to take if objects are to be created from scratch.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #146 –
It would not be hard in theory to write a decompiler, given that the source code is public.
Download Simutrans-Extended.

Want to help with development? See here for things to do for coding, and here for information on how to make graphics/objects.

Follow Simutrans-Extended on Facebook.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #147 –
Hallo dear Simutransmembers
I find from Raven the new Webside her it´s the Link:
http://128.simutrans.com/raven/main/index.html

Here gives the vehicles out the USA!

greenling
Opening hours 20:00 - 23:00
(In Night from friday on saturday and saturday on sunday it possibly that i be keep longer in Forum.)
I am The ****istant from Pakfilearcheologist!
Working on a big Problem!

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #148 –
Quote from: Lmallet – on
I have seen rumours that such a decompiler exists, and is held in a secret tower somewhere.  I also seem to recall that Raven has given permission to use his objects, and since most of the source files have been lost, there might be a legitimate reason to get a hold of the decompiler here.  (all of this needs to be confirmed).
I got all 3 items - paks, decompiler and images. So... I should give this to whom? ;)

My projects... Tools for messing with Simutrans graphics. Graphic archive - templates and some other stuff for painters. Development logs for most recent information on what is going on. And of course pak128!

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #149 –
VS
before You reextracte the Pictures out the Pakfiles.
Talking with Raven thats he giving the ok to use his modells to build a
new Pak128.usa .
Gives Raven his ok Than sending the Picture and dats on wlindley.
He want build a New pak128.usa .

Greenling
Opening hours 20:00 - 23:00
(In Night from friday on saturday and saturday on sunday it possibly that i be keep longer in Forum.)
I am The ****istant from Pakfilearcheologist!
Working on a big Problem!

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #150 –
I did that already, a long time ago :)

My projects... Tools for messing with Simutrans graphics. Graphic archive - templates and some other stuff for painters. Development logs for most recent information on what is going on. And of course pak128!

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #151 –
@VS:  It would be nice if pak128.USA was open instead of freeware.  Do you remember what Raven agreed to specifically (re: open vs. freeware for his stuff)?

@wlindley:  If you are going to go ahead with this, please consider myself available to help you.  I don't know how exactly (and how much time I have), but I am definitely interested in this project.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #152 –
Raven gave me carte blanche...

My projects... Tools for messing with Simutrans graphics. Graphic archive - templates and some other stuff for painters. Development logs for most recent information on what is going on. And of course pak128!

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #153 –
Quote from: VS – on
Raven gave me carte blanche...

That's what I remember, too. AFAIK he allowed us to use all his things how ever we wanted, as long as it is for Simutrans.
  
***** PAK128 Dev Team - semi-retired*****

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #154 –
I am going to revive this thread to show the first step in making an American pakset, city roads without lines. White dashed lines indicate something completely different on US roads, and typically within towns most streets do not have lines. Note, the yellow lined cross roads were manually added and crosswalks were not modified..



Intro year is 1915, which is when paved surface roads would have become increasingly common within the US..

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #155 –
Excellent.  Do note that:

White center lines were typical in the United States before the early 1970s; yellow center lines followed later.  Dashed or double (and dashed-plus-solid) variants were only standardized about 1971.

[1] "In the United States, two states claim to be the first to have developed center lines..." in either 1911 or 1917... -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_surface_marking

[2] "The 1971 edition of the MUTCD included several significant standards; it required all center lines to be painted on roads in yellow (instead of white), and required that all highway guide signs (not just those on Interstate Highways) contain white text on a green background. Most of the repainting to the 1971 standard was done between 1971 and 1974, with a deadline of 1978 for the changeover of both the markings and signage." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manual_on_Uniform_Traffic_Control_Devices

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #156 –
I am aware of the line marking changes, however, those applied to intercity routes. Two lane intracity roads did not contain any markings. Arterial roads and 2+ lane roads are the only ones marked within cities, even today.

Ideally city roads should be broken into several different styles that can change over time. Until 1915 they should be simple cobblestone. From 1915 - 1927 simple paved surface with no markings. 1927 - 1954 stop lines should appear, and 1954- present is when crosswalks should be visible. For routes between cities, roads could also adhere to the timeline; 1915-1923 simple pavement, 1923-1971 single white line, and 1971-present double yellow line.

For the purposes of this pakset, roads would be the most defining feature of an era in US history. The reason being how reliant transportation has been on them since the first Model T rolled off the ****embly line. Trains of course will be important as well, although the tracks themselves will not change much, which will make it more difficult to differentiate the era with.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #157 –
Those roads should be rather large arterial roads, given the grid constant of 3 km (standard) or 750 m (experimental) in your picture.

Quote
White dashed lines indicate something completely different on US roads
What is different with the lines in the US? (besides being yellow). I thought they mean the same as in the rest of the world, the middle of the road. They must not be crossed when they are solid lines.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #158 –
Depends on where you live. A significant portion of even neighborhood streets here are even marked.

I always thought of city streets in Simutrans as being arterial roads, due to the transportation-level scale; which is why I put stripes on the streets I made. :)

But I can see the argument to treat them like neighborhood-level streets based on the building-level scale, too. So personally (if my opinion matters, no worries if it doesn't) I'm good either way. :)

I am definitely looking forward to seeing pak128.USA take off. :D Looks great so far. :)

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #159 –
Quote from: sdog – on
What is different with the lines in the US? (besides being yellow). I thought they mean the same as in the rest of the world, the middle of the road. They must not be crossed when they are solid lines.

Broken white lines are only used on one way roads and highways. A dashed white line indicates both lanes are traveling in the same direction, and you can freely cross over the dashed lines. Solid white lines are a bit rare, usually only seen on freeways and the like to separate a HOV lane from the rest of other travel lanes. A single white line is also used on the edges of roads to separate the lane from the shoulder. Otherwise, a double yellow line is always used to separate lanes of opposite travel.

Of course these styles can vary across regions, I am only familiar with what I have seen in the Southeast.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #160 –
Code: [Select]
Otherwise, a double yellow line is always used to separate lanes of opposite travel.
Is it allowed to cross them, when overtaking, or turning left? If not, it's the same system.

What line is in the middle of a normal bidirectional road with one lane in each direction outside of built-up areas? The ones found between small towns or villages

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #161 –
Double-yellow line can be crossed to turn, but not to p****/overtake; used only in the middle of a road between lanes of oncoming traffic.

Dashed-yellow line can be crossed to turn and p****/overtake.

One solid yellow + dashed yellow indicates p****ing on the dashed side.

Lanes separated by white travel in the same direction.

On a road with a median / neutral ground (empty space between opposing traffic lanes), the inner stripe will be solid yellow, the outer stripe will be solid white.

Quote from: sdog – on
What line is in the middle of a normal bidirectional road with one lane in each direction outside of built-up areas? The ones found between small towns or villages

Yellow stripes, typically with sections of double-solid, half-solid-half-dashed, or dashed, as conditions allow for p****ing (although some remain double-yellow for their entirety). Also, in nearly all cases, a single solid white stripe will be on the outside edge (whether there is a shoulder / breakdown lane or no)

Yellow always indicates oncoming traffic (if there is a painted median in the middle, it will always be yellow; if there is a painted median between lanes going in the same direction, it will be white) and white always indicates traffic going in the same direction.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #162 –
The next project I was working on is designing a new series of rail waytypes to fit the timeline. I started with the most basic form of railway in the US - jointed light rail on wooden ties. Light rail is less than 100lbs. This would have been common on mainline railroads until 1950 when continuous weld and larger rail took over. Jointed rail is still used on branchlines, industry tracks, and sidings today.

Here is a sample;



This will replace the "low quality track" in game. The middle tracks are the original "low quality track" graphics slightly adjusted. The speed difference is minimal between the three styles, after all this is meant to be cheap and slow.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #163 –
Presumably you're not starting the timeline in 1900? Railways were already quite mature by then...
Download Simutrans-Extended.

Want to help with development? See here for things to do for coding, and here for information on how to make graphics/objects.

Follow Simutrans-Extended on Facebook.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #165 –
OK.. I have been working on roads this evening.. I laid out basically a three type network to last the entirety of the game. The first type is a basic rural road. These roads would connect smaller towns that were not connected by arterial highways or other major roads, or cross connect cities as alternate routes. From the beginning of the timeline to 1920, rural roads are going to be dirt.



These are accurate to what American road development would have looked like. The first stage is the 1920-1945 basic pavement. The white line would have trickled down to rural routes much slower, which is why they do not appear until 1945, lasting until a major standards change in 1971. In 1971 and for the rest of the game, we get the standard yellow double line without the white shoulder markings.

The next type of road is arterial highway, which is basically a major intercity road.



The years for the last two are still not final. The last road will probably appear between 1995 and 2005 with a higher speed limit than the previous road.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #166 –
How about a high-speed road, with white dashed lines, and a high maintenance cost, (and ideally available as an elevated way) which can be used to build expressways starting around 1960?  Two of these would look like a superhighway even if Simutrans does not yet fully have the concept of both lanes going in the same direction.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #167 –
those roads look awesome.
Are the speed limits the same deal as in canada?
25mph 40km/h residential/school zone
35mph 50km/h city
38mph 60km/h outer city
50mph 80km/h farmland/rural
60mph 100km/h freeway

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #168 –
Speed limits vary widely in the US. My experience has been:

25mph - residential, often not signed (sometimes signed at 20mph or even 15mph)
30mph, 35mph most common city streets (sometimes signed at 25mph)
30mph-45mph - arterial roads
45mph-55mph - major arterial roads
55mph-70mph - rural highways
55mph-80mph - freeways

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #169 –
Quote from: wlindley – on
How about a high-speed road, with white dashed lines, and a high maintenance cost, (and ideally available as an elevated way) which can be used to build expressways starting around 1960?  Two of these would look like a superhighway even if Simutrans does not yet fully have the concept of both lanes going in the same direction.

That is the third type of road, available beginning in 1956.



For this one I just used the default autobahn and added diagonals like I did for all the other roads and improved the dashed centerline.. This version ends in 1975, after that point there will be shoulder markings like on the late arterial roads.

The speed limits thus far are below;

Rural Roads;

1912 - 1939 50 km/h
1939 - 1971 60 km/h
1971 - 2999 75 km/h

Arterial Roads;

1914 - 1924 60 km/h
1924 - 1971 80 km/h
1971 - 2999 95 km/h

Highways;

1956 - 1975 100km/h
1975 - 2999 150km/h

Of course those are not set in stone, but I believe they are realistic and balanced.

This pretty much ends the roads portion of the pak from me.. There will be one more highway to share, but that is all in terms of new networks. The dirt and gravel roads need replacements, but for now I will just leave the standard pak128 versions in place. There will be a plain pavement available from the 70s onward to represent a driveway to access industries or attractions.

Let me know what you guys think.. If all is well I can upload the completed paks and source files.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #170 –
i don't want to be overcritical, but on the diagonal part is a very visible zig zag pattern, due to not very well tile-able noise. Perhaps you can match the different tiles a bit better? The texture of the straight parts is pretty good however. It has not only noise, but also a slight stripy structure, orthogonal to the direction of the road. The structure is also very well tilable, no tile borders are noticeable at all.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #171 –
150km/h sounds good.

Ontario's 400 series highways built during the 50's to current day are marked as 100km/h, but it's possible to do 130km/h safely. Actually, it's possible to do 160km/h on them in a car, but trucks still flip over occasionally on the on/off ramps.

18 wheeler trucks still only do 100km/h to keep fuel economy good and seem to lack power while going uphills. Not unusual to see 18 wheelers only doing 80km/h while climbing.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #173 –
Quote from: sdog – on
i don't want to be overcritical, but on the diagonal part is a very visible zig zag pattern, due to not very well tile-able noise. Perhaps you can match the different tiles a bit better? The texture of the straight parts is pretty good however. It has not only noise, but also a slight stripy structure, orthogonal to the direction of the road. The structure is also very well tilable, no tile borders are noticeable at all.

You are not being overcritical at all, in fact I welcome and appreciate you bringing that glitch to my attention. I did what I could to it, but I have trouble seeing on this computer screen so it may not be perfect..

I attempted to correct it, as well as the other diagonal sections;



(Note, image compression ruined this photo, looks much better in game..)


Quote from: Isaac.Eiland-Hall – on
150kmh? That's around 93mph.

The highest speed limit in the United States is on part of I-10 and I-20 in far West Texas, where it's 80mph (128km): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_the_United_States

And from 1973-1995, the national speed limit was 55mph.

I set the speed limit high for the modern highway because it is open ended until the end of the timeline. There probably will not be any vehicles that can reach 150 km/h operating speed anyway until the future. I also took into consideration the national speed limit, however, it did not make sense to me to cap all three of the available roads to the same speed limit when they differ widely in cost and maintenance.

In any case, I am satisfied with the network graphics thus far. We can adjust speed/cost, etc. later if necessary. The important thing for me now is to draw bridges for each and every network so we can get a functioning road network for this pakset.

Re: pak128.USA

Reply #174 –
Quote
I attempted to correct it, as well as the other diagonal sections;

yes, this is much better now!